tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post1659066600186356222..comments2023-10-22T09:18:16.885-04:00Comments on Far and Wide: Hello In There!Steve Vhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-73265533385056307692009-06-01T20:12:30.765-04:002009-06-01T20:12:30.765-04:00Nice to know we agree on something :)Nice to know we agree on something :)Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-56232544500286269572009-06-01T19:33:21.589-04:002009-06-01T19:33:21.589-04:00"The media suffer from duplicity. They chasti...<i>"The media suffer from duplicity. They chastise political parties for perpetual "election" talk, when it's they in fact that pour over every sentence to raise the temperature, so THEY can talk about a possible election. Sometimes they don't even require an idle quote, in amongst a much more telling paragraph uttered, they just see any area of conflict and RUN with it. If the media is tired of election talk, I assure you we are all more tired of their lazy frames that manufacture real election talk (generalizing of course)."</i><br /><br />Well, we don't agree on much else, Steve V, but on this particular point above, I believe you've nailed it perfectly. Cheers.A readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10088629072037720322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-1161535041912195452009-06-01T14:18:01.809-04:002009-06-01T14:18:01.809-04:00"Nonsense Liberal spin."
Or, the most obvious of ..."Nonsense Liberal spin."<br /><br />Or, the most obvious of realities. Hey, what happened with all those non confidence motions, ANYTHING?Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-13148770587906600682009-06-01T00:27:07.616-04:002009-06-01T00:27:07.616-04:00"And, that's the luxury of being the fourth party ..."And, that's the luxury of being the fourth party in Parliament, you can push everything you want, but it's almost always theoretical."<br /><br />Nonsense Liberal spin.<br /><br />First, in my comment above I explicitly referred to initiatives that the Liberals supported which would mean they too were "push[ing] everything" because it was "almost always theoretical".<br /><br />Second, the NDP has included each of it's proposals in a balanced budget platform in each of the last three election and no other party has offered ANY substantive claim that the NDP's budget numbers did not add up. If they could have, you'd think they'd have done so.<br /><br />The simple fact of the matter is that the NDP has brought forward far more substantive ideas than the Liberals over the last several years and--unlike the Dion carbon tax--the NDP's ideas have gained substantial support from other parties.RayKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05849043290404443300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-20186383073334587992009-05-31T23:46:13.104-04:002009-05-31T23:46:13.104-04:00Steve,
Election?
The only way we get one is if w...Steve,<br /><br />Election?<br /><br />The only way we get one is if we fall into it through a series of Laurel and Hardy stumbles (like the Christmas Coalition). But they could happen. I am quite surprised that Jack Layton is tossing this football out the door. Layton and the NDP have been continually screaming for the PM's head on a platter. Remember January...?<br /><br /><br />In regards to electoral reform, reform is never an advantage to the governing parties therefore they are never pre-disposed into allowing changes. <br /><br />And quite frankly, I DO NOT want a bunch of Green's on parliament Hill jumping and dancing around just because they garnered 5% of the national electorate without getting a seat. It is the same reason that we didn't want dozens of Socreds in the 80's and it is why it finally died out, as it should have. If we put in some type of proportional representation, we end up with 10-15 parties, most of them electing single issue fanatics and posers. The Christian Heritage Leader? The Confederation of Regions? The Marijuana Party? And once they have a seat, they will always have a seat. Depending on the system brought forward, it may be the same wingnut every election if the party is able to choose their rep from a national list. <br /><br />What we have now certainly isn't perfect, but I shudder at the thought of the obvious alternatives. <br /><br />The one potential system that may work is a collection of right and left coalition groups that all lean on each other (kind of like the Dion-May agreement). But that sure does give the junior partner a lot of power.Tommhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06072854015300215347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-66825918221488550032009-05-31T23:38:33.045-04:002009-05-31T23:38:33.045-04:00kirby
Not that I didn't understand, but maybe you...kirby<br /><br />Not that I didn't understand, but maybe you could be more clear. Whenever anybody mentions electoral reform these days, it usually revolves around voting schematics. What you suggested here, is an entirely different matter.<br /><br /><br /><br />pnp<br /><br />Hi, I'm a pompous windbag that will select international examples that fit nicely into my narrow point of view, while simultaneously ignoring a host of examples that suggest the opposite. Whatever, sorry to piss on your pet utopia.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-85002989365181125802009-05-31T23:22:43.655-04:002009-05-31T23:22:43.655-04:00"One thing about electoral reform, it won't stop t..."One thing about electoral reform, it won't stop this behavior, in many respects it will enhance it."<br /><br />Hi, my name is Steve V. I pretend to have a knowledge of comparative legislative behaviour, but I clearly don't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-83360517539510065982009-05-31T23:20:59.240-04:002009-05-31T23:20:59.240-04:00Saying that reforms will "enhance" these behaviour...Saying that reforms will "enhance" these behaviours suggests that you don't understand what kind of reforms I am talking about. You seem to think I am just talking about PR or some similar reform. I believe in some form of PR from the point of view of Democracy. However, the electoral reform that can address the issues we are talking about, and the only way that we can really take this cynicism out of the system, are other types of reform. If we have any hope of democracy surviving then we have to take most of the money out of the system, take most of the advertising out of the system, we have to take a great deal of power out of the PMO, we need to change how political parties function etc etc. Even the NDP has never proposed these kind of serious changes at a substantive level. People seems to think they are beyond the pale and brush off these kind of reforms but without them I believe it is simple: democracy as we know it will fail.Kirbycairohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17528654183160305877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-89907802808817438122009-05-31T22:43:32.375-04:002009-05-31T22:43:32.375-04:00" In most cases, these initiatives have been propo..." In most cases, these initiatives have been proposed by the NDP. "<br /><br />And, that's the luxury of being the fourth party in Parliament, you can push everything you want, but it's almost always theoretical. <br /><br />kirby<br /><br />One thing about electoral reform, it won't stop this behavior, in many respects it will enhance it. If you want to talk representation, that one's thing, but when you have different parties jockeying for influence, this crap will be everywhere.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-68051863347129620872009-05-31T21:09:27.428-04:002009-05-31T21:09:27.428-04:00Well Steve. . . if this is the 'simple reality...Well Steve. . . if this is the 'simple reality of politics' then maybe that means that we need to push forward to electoral reform that will take some of these issues out of the game so to speak. Unfortunately neither the Liberal nor the Conservatives are willing to embrace real electoral reform because they both seek de facto dictatorship with a solid majority and don't want to do anything to disrupt this possibility. But critics from every quarter are starting to talk about the failure of our democracy (and this goes for many countries) and so clearly it is time to look at serious changes.Kirbycairohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17528654183160305877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-84040062962196282922009-05-31T21:01:27.136-04:002009-05-31T21:01:27.136-04:00The problem with your analysis is that it's co...The problem with your analysis is that it's correct.<br /><br />Time and time again the opposition parties have agreed on a vareity of substantive initiatives that they wanted to enact--from EI to credit card protections to a cap and trade system. In most cases, these initiatives have been proposed by the NDP. But time and time again the Liberals have chosen to prop up the Conservatives rather than try to force the government to act.<br /><br />The only difference between Stephane Dion and Michael Ignatieff is that the latter has repeatedly talked as if he would stand fast, but then hasn't. Dion knew he couldn't get away with that. Frankly, I can't understand why Michael Ignatieff has, but--as far as substance goes--actions speak louder than.<br /><br />It's not that "the game has changed" because of "a determined Ignatieff". So far, for all we know, Ignatieff may just cave once again. If the Conservatives do move on EI it will only serve to demonstrate how much damage the Liberals have done to Canada by letting him govern as if he had a majority up to this point.RayKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05849043290404443300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-64484844847955954802009-05-31T20:58:52.659-04:002009-05-31T20:58:52.659-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.RayKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05849043290404443300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-47350193321082962572009-05-31T20:33:01.227-04:002009-05-31T20:33:01.227-04:00I agree on disillusioned, but in some respects it&...I agree on disillusioned, but in some respects it's a simple reality of politics that plagues most countries where a majority isn't in the cards. It's an interesting debate if this is the natural state or not, irrespective of the characters. That said, let's not forget that this debate is predicated on a principle, wanting EI reform. It's not like people just invented an issue to look strong, it came because people see EI as problematic in its current state, in this current climate. If you want to take cyncism to the absolute, then I suppose you could dismiss it all, but I know I want to see reform, and it isn't because I get to watch Harper cower, that's just an added, delightful bonus, given the past ;)Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-22452611132154067012009-05-31T20:27:44.760-04:002009-05-31T20:27:44.760-04:00Though I don't disagree with the substance of ...Though I don't disagree with the substance of your analysis, what you have said here is testament to why Canadian are entirely disillusioned with our political system. It is all gamesmanship. And until we have some politicians who are willing to stand on actual principle we can look forward to voter turnout to continue to go down and cynicism to be the norm.Kirbycairohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17528654183160305877noreply@blogger.com