tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post1998043950976710312..comments2023-10-22T09:18:16.885-04:00Comments on Far and Wide: FeebleSteve Vhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-14548992618374473622008-12-22T17:02:00.000-05:002008-12-22T17:02:00.000-05:00JamesYou need to separate a normal circumstance fr...James<BR/><BR/>You need to separate a normal circumstance from this one, and react accordingly, rather than clinging to some ideal notion of the grassroots. You and I are in agreement, but the situation demanded a swift response, and for the Liberal Party, this has clearly shown itself to be the best outcome. Besides, if our caucus has the authority to oust a sitting PM without public consultation, then surely they have some authority in choosing who they want to lead them.<BR/><BR/>Just to add, from everything I gathered, it was Ignatieff in a romp anyways. If that sounds arrogant so be it, but Rae's people would also admit that he was much, much stronger than 2006, so if we avoid a bunch of mud slinging, not so bad in the end.<BR/><BR/>James, this move was a smart, smart chain of events, and frankly, apart form a select few, everyone is on board and moving on. It wasn't a grand conspiracy, it only happened this way because Ignatieff was the clear frontrunner, and we all know that. Dion had become an albatross, under the circumstances, and I'm actually proud that we didn't get bogged down in political correctness, we got our act together fast. I'm excited, I see good things ahead. My anger is directed at Harper.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-21854592925523156732008-12-22T16:48:00.000-05:002008-12-22T16:48:00.000-05:00yes. Let's just have caucus pick our leaders from ...yes. Let's just have caucus pick our leaders from now on. <BR/><BR/>As for my membership? I don't think we need members anymore given the above statement. Just voters. No members.James Curranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08064830948270604331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-74792093050053493032008-12-22T12:57:00.000-05:002008-12-22T12:57:00.000-05:00JamesJust one point that needs to be considered. ...James<BR/><BR/><BR/>Just one point that needs to be considered. A leader has to instill confidence in the troops, and if people see others completely outshining the leader, is that not a statement on failed leadership? Let's face it, while you and I may have liked Dion, many, many Liberals never connected to him and I can assure you, these were just rank and file, unaffiliated members. Dion must share some blame here, because he didn't demonstrate the capacity to inspire the reluctant, to show them that he was a leader.<BR/><BR/>James, I think you need to get over it, or maybe rethink your membership, because you simply can't function if you are consumed with bitterness. I didn't want Dion to resign after the election, but I must say, now that it's all over with, I feel like this party is finally getting back on track, morale, for the most part is high, there's a path ahead. For a myriad of reasons, Dion was a failure as Liberal leader and that is more painfully obvious by the day. I'm looking ahead, and I like what I see. Extraordinary circumstances sometimes trump preferred path, any fair read acknowledges the situation and pragmatism demands "cutting some slack". Let's move on.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-71013411158266184872008-12-22T00:56:00.000-05:002008-12-22T00:56:00.000-05:00Interesting conversation. Anonymous assholes are a...Interesting conversation. Anonymous assholes are always very tough people. Probably Francesco if I had to guess. <BR/><BR/>True. I've seen much. Some should keep in mind that in February 2006 I effectively was chosen Southern Ontario Co-chair for a certain leadership campaign, fromerly known as the chosen one, a.k.a Michael Ignatieff. I remained on that campaign until Michael and his people decided Quebec was a nation. <BR/><BR/>If we were going down that slope, I decided to leave for Dion - a man of CLARITY. <BR/><BR/>Now, I went to BOB this time for the same reasons. I like Michael. Some of the people around him continue to be dangerous. I don't like his politics - or sometimes lack thereof. I also admire his wife Zsuzsanna. It would have been easier for me to stay than leave based on principle. <BR/><BR/>However, I have fought my ass off for democracy in this f*cking party, and this fake, unfair, undemocratic piece of shit of a leadership selection runs against everything all of us in the grassroots just fought 4.5 years to get rid of. <BR/><BR/>Worse than anything the Martinites ever did. Waaaaay worse. <BR/><BR/>And, yes. I know a lot. I've seen a lot. The reason Bob is not in this so-called non-race for leadership is because he DID put his team to rest after the leadership, while Team Iggy continued to recruit, continued to place their team on the National Executive and continued to win nominations with their supporters...Rob Oliphant, Michelle Simson, Kirsty Duncan, Andrew Kania, Larry DiIanni to name a few. <BR/><BR/>Then, of course, we can talk about the so-called Qubec wing. Fragasso, Frulla, Coderre and Rodriguez couldn't possibly trash Dion more than they did. The Conservatives didn't have to run ads in that province the for Iggyites did damage daily. Shit, in Outremont I stood beside Coderre in on e of his anonymous source interviews openly criticizing the leader. <BR/><BR/>Then, of course the loudmouths October 15, 2008 asking for Dion's head. Scott Andrews, first time MP from NFLD and Jimmy K. Refresh my memory. Who were they supporting. Oh yeah. Michael Ignatieff. <BR/><BR/>Now, big mouth anonymous coward. If you really want to debate this, I'm available 24/7 to do so!<BR/><BR/>Who's Supposedly Liberal? Give your f&cking head a shake anonymous! Are all of the Liberals on this stream Laurier members? I am? Are all of you members of your riding executives? I sit on three. <BR/><BR/>Pawlease! Where were you anonymous coward when Dion was pissed on for two years straight? I was working my ass off for him while all the bitter Iggyites sat on the sidelines still shaking their heads and working the AGMs at ridings. Still fighting a battle fought in 2006. <BR/><BR/>I fought. I fought under my own name, with my own reputation while cheapshot cowards like you anon sit and talk about what a great Liberal you are. <BR/><BR/>I will oppose you in any AGM anywhere in this country coward. And I will do it in the name of a democratic and open party that is now lost. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for letting me visit Steve.James Curranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08064830948270604331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-81934386040371314622008-12-21T15:46:00.000-05:002008-12-21T15:46:00.000-05:00GayleJust to be clear, you and I are in complete a...Gayle<BR/><BR/>Just to be clear, you and I are in complete agreement, that Dion was undermined by "anonymous Liberals" and all the other counter-productive stuff. There is no question that some put forth a half hearted effort, and it was a factor. I've just never been one to make any one person responsible for the actions of supporters, nor do I think it necessarily reflects their intent.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-31206633137200479502008-12-21T15:45:00.000-05:002008-12-21T15:45:00.000-05:00I know you were not the one who brought it up. I s...I know you were not the one who brought it up. I should have worded my comment more carefully.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-29734432411974067872008-12-21T15:30:00.000-05:002008-12-21T15:30:00.000-05:00gayleJames is free to say what he wants, I didn't ...gayle<BR/><BR/>James is free to say what he wants, I didn't bring it up. That said, it's a "bit rich" to back Rae as though he the holy one, regarding Dion, when we all know differently. Selective venting I say, and entirely wrong. That said, whatever floats his boat, it's not really my concern.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-66955739116698348752008-12-21T15:27:00.000-05:002008-12-21T15:27:00.000-05:00Steve - believe it or not, I have moved on. That s...Steve - believe it or not, I have moved on. <BR/><BR/>That said, I have some understanding for the people doing to Iggy what he did to Dion - or at least what his people did to Dion.<BR/><BR/>It is not productive, but it is a bit rich to complain about that conduct after the conduct exhibited by Iggy's people. I accept the argument that Rae's people did it too, and if Rae were the leader right now he would probably be facing the same backlash as Iggy.<BR/><BR/>Yes let's move on - but perhaps we can do so without criticizing James. Allow him to vent and express his opinion - at least he is doing so openly. When people complain about his conduct after everything that happened over the past two years, they just look like hypocrites.<BR/><BR/>He appears to represent the minority opinion right now, but he is certainly entitled to express it.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-18773158318855484922008-12-21T13:58:00.000-05:002008-12-21T13:58:00.000-05:00Speaking of polls, Con trolls, you failed to menti...Speaking of polls, Con trolls, you failed to mention the horserace/leadership only AR poll, which showed a tight race, AND more importantly Harpo behind Iggy for best PM, his negatives exploding. As Harper goes, so do the Conservatives, that's how you guys have set up your appeal, so call me unconcerned. I believe in my gut, without question, that Iggy can take Harper down. I'm just not afraid of Harper, we are no longer fighting with one hand tied behind our back, you've lost your pinata.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-56756069186015410562008-12-21T13:54:00.000-05:002008-12-21T13:54:00.000-05:00gayleOnly 3 people ran for the leadership, and eac...gayle<BR/><BR/>Only 3 people ran for the leadership, and each of them had "supporters" working behind the scenes. For James, or anyone, to implicate Ignatieff, while simultaneously ignoring Rae "people" is both intellectually dishonest and completely and utterly unfair. All I know, Ignatieff did whatever was asked of him by Dion's team, over and above as a matter of fact.<BR/><BR/>Can we please just move on :)Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-23786638914489639822008-12-21T13:46:00.000-05:002008-12-21T13:46:00.000-05:00Ya, James saw stuff apparently, "well so did other...Ya, James saw stuff apparently, "well so did others about Rae". Perhaps this argument should end and end now.<BR/><BR/>It solves nothing.<BR/><BR/>Either everyone broods and cries or they move on like adults.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-4298409419608311552008-12-21T13:31:00.000-05:002008-12-21T13:31:00.000-05:00James is pretty clear on what he saw and heard - a...James is pretty clear on what he saw and heard - and as he was there I will have to give that to him.<BR/><BR/>I agree it does not help the party, but you reap what you sow and all that rot.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-8678234895938687262008-12-21T13:18:00.000-05:002008-12-21T13:18:00.000-05:00What Iggy did to Dion? Please, what BS.What Rae d...What Iggy did to Dion? Please, what BS.<BR/><BR/>What Rae did to Dion - shall we start? <BR/><BR/>Let's stop this nonsense.<BR/><BR/>Fact is it doesn't matter what anyone supposedly did - Dion didn't cut it with the voters. I've spoken to people that paid absolutely no attention to Harper's attack ads, weren't aware of Liberal behind the scenes stuff, etc. They just didn't take to him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-31627257015616946072008-12-21T12:51:00.000-05:002008-12-21T12:51:00.000-05:00OH, we should see how those push polls, I mean pol...OH, we should see how those push polls, I mean polls framed their questions. But let's ignore those little gems of polling companies, on behalf of their "constituents" to framing bias, I mean leading, I mean fair and balanced questions. LOL<BR/>So sure, Canadians want Iggy the accommodating liberal to team up with Harper the bully to back up the capitalist class. Cause that is where most folks "bread is buttered" in the bread-line on mainstreet.<BR/>They don't want 50 billion in corporate taxcuts rescinded and they want personal taxcuts for their executives.<BR/>Also, most Canadians while we are in the throws of "disaster capitalism" to take the boots to women pay equity rights and unions' rights. <BR/>Sure the majority wants Iggy to unite the right with Harper the bully, as a defining moment in time. And Canadians during these hard times definitely want a 300 million dollar election cause this money is so well spent and has everything to do with their concerns about jobs, savings, pensions and housing - NOT!susansmithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02573558646874765432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-52431240551217149782008-12-21T12:34:00.000-05:002008-12-21T12:34:00.000-05:00"Sore losers and angry people who just don't think..."Sore losers and angry people who just don't think anyone should think any way but his way - we just don't need them."<BR/><BR/>I tend to agree, but given what Iggy's people did to Dion over the past two years, I do not think Iggy would be in any position to complain.<BR/><BR/>Iggy made this particular bed - he is going to have to find some way to deal with the fallout.<BR/><BR/>As for the polls, they do not concern me. If I recall, before the last election and in the first week Harper had similar results from the polls. This is what happens when people are not really engaged in the process.<BR/><BR/>Iggy needs to stay the course and do what is right for the country. He should not be guided by polls. That is what Harper has been doing and look what a mess we are in.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-35215045867547601182008-12-21T09:38:00.000-05:002008-12-21T09:38:00.000-05:00Don't follow?angry guy<EM>Don't follow?</EM><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://whatdoiknowgrit.blogspot.com/2008/12/campaigning-on-raising-taxes-has-never.html" REL="nofollow">angry guy</A>sjwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16425560486235905508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-92226787205586386532008-12-21T09:32:00.000-05:002008-12-21T09:32:00.000-05:00I lean conservative, I like Ignatieff and I'm happ...I lean conservative, I like Ignatieff and I'm happy the Liberals chose him as leader although like many, I didn't like the process by which he was chosen.<BR/><BR/>To me Ignatieff's selection signifies that the Liberals will finally make a turn to the center after their disastrous flirtation with the left under Dion.<BR/><BR/>The coalition was the left's last hurrah in the country for some time. The Liberals know that these times require a more centrist orientation. Ignatieff is pragmatic and on some issues even tilts decidedly right. I'm happy with that, I'd be happy with Iggy at the helm.<BR/><BR/>I'm happy that Gayle, RT, knb and other Liberal-lefty bloggers are happy too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-90939968597385566132008-12-21T09:02:00.000-05:002008-12-21T09:02:00.000-05:00Don't follow?Don't follow?Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-41144218393442837882008-12-21T08:58:00.000-05:002008-12-21T08:58:00.000-05:00It doesn't help when a certain angry person who cl...It doesn't help when a certain angry person who claims to be a Liberal does a daily rant about Ignatieff because he was a Rae supporter and can't face facts, that like it or not, Ontario would never vote for Rae.<BR/><BR/>Sore losers and angry people who just don't think anyone should think any way but his way - we just don't need them.<BR/><BR/>I wasn't a Dion supporter at all, and even though I felt cheated by the backroom stuff that got him in, he became the leader and I didn't trash him. I swallowed by pride and supported him. In fact, my support got stronger when I saw the way Harper and his team of children did their constant attacks on him.<BR/><BR/>So, if the angry guy likes having Harper as PM, I guess he can just keep up his stupid and petty rants.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-42588427195887346312008-12-21T08:34:00.000-05:002008-12-21T08:34:00.000-05:00SandiHow long until some fool Con says Dodge is a ...Sandi<BR/><BR/>How long until some fool Con says Dodge is a Liberal ;)Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-31687733326086499292008-12-21T08:29:00.000-05:002008-12-21T08:29:00.000-05:00David Dodge, the former Gov. of the Bank of Canada...David Dodge, the former Gov. of the Bank of Canada was on Mike Duffy on Friday. He said that with debt accumulating and the way the economy is going - WHATEVER party is in - they will have "NO choice" but to raise taxes.<BR/><BR/>He spoke in laymen's terms and he is one smart guy. I wish he were still Gov of the Bank of Canada instead of this Carney guy we have now. Remember, that's why the GST was created in the first place - we had massive debt. <BR/><BR/>Too bad we couldn't get that segment on YouTube.RuralSandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09552973218865121867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-40673062651368330162008-12-20T23:52:00.000-05:002008-12-20T23:52:00.000-05:00If I am Iggy, I would fight back by daring Harper ...If I am Iggy, I would fight back by daring Harper to put a GST tax rebate as a poison pill. This is done by insisting that Layton sign a coalition pledge that the GST be increased to 7 per cent in a Liberal-NDP government.<BR/><BR/>A simple election based on who are the best economic managers in March 2009. It's the economy stupid, may be the best way to defeat Harper.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-24800926995490107962008-12-20T23:28:00.000-05:002008-12-20T23:28:00.000-05:00"Conservatives are not afraid of Iggy"Oh come on n..."Conservatives are not afraid of Iggy"<BR/><BR/>Oh come on now, you know it's true, even your man Fife uses the word, and we all know he's plugged into the PMO.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-27716334215068147732008-12-20T22:55:00.000-05:002008-12-20T22:55:00.000-05:00Cites turmoil in U.S., cost of climate measuresDec...Cites turmoil in U.S., cost of climate measures<BR/>December 21, 2007<BR/>Bruce Campion-Smith<BR/>Tonda MacCharles<BR/>Ottawa Bureau<BR/><BR/>OTTAWA – Prime Minister Stephen Harper expects Canada's economy to suffer next year, buffeted by turmoil south of the border and the "cost" of new climate-change measures here at home.<BR/><BR/>In a calculated signal to Canadians, Harper said that 2008 will be "more challenging" for his government and the country.<BR/><BR/>"There remains very serious economic uncertainty in the United States and in other parts of the world, and it's impossible for me to see how Canada can be entirely immune from those developments," he said in a year-end interview with the Star.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-72569113774657134062008-12-20T22:32:00.000-05:002008-12-20T22:32:00.000-05:00Anon writes: “Constitutional law is 50 per cent ru...Anon writes: “Constitutional law is 50 per cent rules, and 50 per cent high politics,” says McWhinney. “A successful G.G. knows how to maintain that balance. Reading public opinion is crucial.”<BR/><BR/>If Jean 'read public opinion' before deciding to give in to Harper, she's even more stupid than I thought! As <A HREF="http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=9b76333c-7364-430b-a4ab-95633da3e55a&sponsor=" REL="nofollow">David Zussman</A> wrote, most Canadians (including myself) didn't have a f***ing clue what prorogation meant, and understood even less what it entailed given the particular circumstances surrounding Harper's request, i.e. he had already lost the confidence of the House!<BR/><BR/>On another note pertaining to the burgeoning Ignatieff smear campaign, there is a US site where one of the tips given to counter opposition smears is to start a viral email campaign. It's a thought.<BR/>----------<BR/><I><A HREF="http://thecylinder.wordpress.com/word-warriors-for-canada/" REL="nofollow">Because I can!</A></I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com