tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post5061876062044241700..comments2023-10-22T09:18:16.885-04:00Comments on Far and Wide: End GameSteve Vhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comBlogger88125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-53071738492119779622008-11-30T00:59:00.000-05:002008-11-30T00:59:00.000-05:00"he is right, but only if the coalition can actual..."he is right, but only if the coalition can actually do that."<BR/><BR/>Gayle,<BR/><BR/>The key to the coalition's success is recognizing that the Grits have the weakened hand. Dion as PM also helps Layton as Steve points out.<BR/><BR/>Steve,<BR/><BR/>Iggy and Rae have a role to play too. They will need to step in once the Bloc withdraws their support in confidence supply measures. There will probably be an election in the fall of 2009, for the simple reason of having the Canadian public ratify the Liberal-NDP coalition. The Grits will need to target Quebec more than ever before, for the simple reason that we will have to let Layton a free rein in the West. Dion does not have mileage in Quebec, so he needs to go in May 2009.<BR/><BR/>EFL,<BR/><BR/>What you are suggesting is preposterous. Trudeau came back in 1980 because the party thinks that it can win a majority then. There may be a dozen who seriously thinks that Dion can do the same in 2009, once this Parliamentary session finishes with Harper or Prentice as Leader of the Opposition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-66930808064856288522008-11-30T00:41:00.000-05:002008-11-30T00:41:00.000-05:00JimmE,"If one of the changes a coalition brings in...JimmE,<BR/><BR/>"If one of the changes a coalition brings in is to raise the max. contribution limit, the Liberal party will suddenly be much more competitive with the Tory air war."<BR/><BR/>Non-issue I'm afraid. The Bloc and the NDP do benefit from Chretien's campaign financing law. Also will not alleviate the weaker senior partner dilemma which the coalition government will permeate. Ironically, it is this weaker senior partner scenario that allows for this coalition to work. That the NDP has a strong enough hand to demand coalition seats encouraged this attempt to defeat Harper in the first place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-1929724321790877482008-11-30T00:12:00.000-05:002008-11-30T00:12:00.000-05:00Dion & Rae aren't going anywhere. Anyone w...Dion & Rae aren't going anywhere. Anyone with the slightest insight into their characters, based on their careers, would know that. These are tough smart guys who have stayed in Canada over the past three decades and fought the good fight while others were elsewhere. Dion is not going to roll over to please the very people who spent three years trying to overthrow him & Rae is not going to let himself get pushed around.<BR/><BR/>Since the cost of an undemocratic hostile takeover would be too high for even the most maddened Iggiot, I would think (hope?), and definitely for the mass of caucus & Liberals across the country, you & your Iggy-mad like are best advised to take the gentle advice of BC & AWB and deal with it.<BR/><BR/>Get behind Dion. There may still be a leadership convention, we shall see. But if you wanted to help Iggy, you'd stop engaging in behaviour which turns off the neutral & undecided. Maybe I shouldn't give you this advice since I detest Iggy, but the most important thing is maintaining a united front for the good of the party right now.<BR/><BR/>Take as a given Dion will be PM in a coalition. Then think how you might best help the party, given that situation. But please, think these things through a bit. While it pleases me to see you alienating the undecided from Iggy, it's hurting the party too much.<BR/><BR/>It's not the end of the world if Dion becomes PM, surely, even in your headspace. Your guy will probably still have a chance to become leader, if not in Vancouver, then somewhere down the line. I'll do all I can to stop him, but while I appreciate your unintended help, it's at a point where you are doing more harm than good. Think about it.Eugene Forsey Liberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05538109652483033119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-67327419846691044272008-11-29T23:25:00.000-05:002008-11-29T23:25:00.000-05:00Radwanski:"It's that last one, I suspect, that may...Radwanski:<BR/><BR/>"It's that last one, I suspect, that may determine how the Liberals decide to proceed. If they can't gracefully replace Stephane Dion, it's probably not going to happen. But if Dion agrees to step aside, Bob Rae takes one for the team and Michael Ignatieff is installed, there'll be a lot more enthusiasm in Liberal ranks for trying to get him into 24 Sussex forthwith. <BR/><BR/>But then, that assumes the NDP and Bloc were willing to join a coalition led by Ignatieff; there's been buzz that they'd in fact prefer Dion, presumably because of his relative weakness."<BR/><BR/>Not because he's more palatable spectrum wise, because he's "weaker". Don't think it's kumbaya time, that will be leveraged by the peacock.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-37005283785219553382008-11-29T21:55:00.000-05:002008-11-29T21:55:00.000-05:00Scott - he is right, but only if the coalition can...Scott - he is right, but only if the coalition can actually do that.<BR/><BR/>I am torn because I still think it is best for the opposition if Harper governs during the recession.<BR/><BR/>As I said above, however, I think if they let him go now he will plot his revenge - and it will not be pretty.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-4018809292308020662008-11-29T21:23:00.000-05:002008-11-29T21:23:00.000-05:00I would just like to say that as an NDP supporter ...I would just like to say that as an NDP supporter who has been very hard on the Liberals and Dion in my postings - i think that the time has come for us to bury the hatchet and work together to rid Canada of the Harper gov't. Let's put some of the poisonous partisan stuff behind us and try to cooperate - its good for the Liberals, good for the NDp and good for Canada if we can find a way to make it work. Maybe someday if we make a relatively modest reform towards preferential voting we can create a longterm coalition arrangement like the Liberals in Australia (who are really the Tories)and the rurally based National Party. If we play our cards right we can keep the Tories out of power for a very, very, very long time. But we both have to put some water in our wine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-53489516457879369162008-11-29T20:51:00.000-05:002008-11-29T20:51:00.000-05:00Gayle:Scott Reid is right.. Harper will not give u...Gayle:<BR/><BR/>Scott Reid is right.. Harper will not give us another opportunity to stop him... we cannot back down now.<BR/><BR/>He must be destroyed, as Reid says (figuratively).Oxford County Liberalshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12181314055142726735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-21955139929437608312008-11-29T20:48:00.001-05:002008-11-29T20:48:00.001-05:00I read at CTV that Harper is backing down on the f...I read at CTV that Harper is backing down on the funding matter, but will also introduce some stimulus measures tomorrow.<BR/><BR/>If he does that, then all parties can walk away from this. The opposition will have succeeded in doing their jobs.<BR/><BR/>Harper will take some time to plot his revenge.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-40788530554170951512008-11-29T20:48:00.000-05:002008-11-29T20:48:00.000-05:00Harper's wrong on this one, and has put the CPC's ...Harper's wrong on this one, and has put the CPC's interests and partisan gains over Canada's -- that's wrong, and if it means a coalition gov't taking over, that's totally fine with me. But surely we can come up with something more than "Let's install my personal preference as Leader!". <BR/><BR/>NO LEADERSHIP CANDIDATES SHOULD BE PM AT THIS TIME. Not Rae, not LeBlanc, not Ignatieff. Go with Dion or an interim leader, but you're just trying to shoehorn your choice in early to give your team an advantage. On a moral level, I don't think that scores much higher than Harper's move this week, to be honest. :(Ashley_Wilkes-Boothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12473323290899848325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-77217642100022163092008-11-29T20:35:00.000-05:002008-11-29T20:35:00.000-05:00Only thing I can say about Scott Reid is that he k...Only thing I can say about Scott Reid is that he knows how to irritate the hell out of people of all political stripes. Is that a talent? Hard to say.<BR/><BR/>Get behind Dion quick Liberals, don't let Harper exploit that obvious weakness. <BR/><BR/>Suicide is installing Ignatieff (or Rae, Leblanc...), Harper will have field day with that move.Blues Clairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08053624911945551511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-45522241989093958552008-11-29T20:03:00.000-05:002008-11-29T20:03:00.000-05:00I thought this was an interesting summation, from ...I thought this was an interesting summation, from the Reid piece, that has everyone in a tizzy:<BR/><BR/>"The other elephant in the room is leadership. Stephane Dion has bargained his way to the drive wheel of the new government. Good for him, but only if it suits the greater good. If Mr. Dion can make his case, then great. If he can't, move to an alternative - and do it fast.<BR/><BR/>Mr. Harper knows that his greatest advantage lies in Mr. Dion's weakness. The coalition can't let that impulse triumph. Don't permit the defeat of Mr. Harper to depend upon Mr. Dion's personal credibility - or that of any single individual, for that matter. There's too much at stake.<BR/><BR/>The coalition must be ruthless. Be quick to signal that if Mr. Dion can't win the confidence of his own party, or the country, an alternative will be identified before the vote in the House."Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-75531307295781995532008-11-29T19:37:00.000-05:002008-11-29T19:37:00.000-05:00... but hell, I would LOVE this incident to be the...... but hell, I would LOVE this incident to be the present PM's political epitaph.<BR/><BR/>My advice to the opposition is here:<BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htR14DZ-O-4<BR/><BR/>My feeling on how the preent PM must be feeling is here:<BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMD7Ezp3gWc&feature=related<BR/><BR/>while I'm a roll here's one for the Queen's rep. in Ottawa:<BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2M_hpoPwk&feature=relatedJimmEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03703715618040666970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-39172542836489772532008-11-29T19:17:00.000-05:002008-11-29T19:17:00.000-05:00Mushroom,I still think the Present PM will sex-up ...Mushroom,<BR/>I still think the Present PM will sex-up this motion to make it acceptable. <BR/>But let's go with your premise; a new Liberal leader after an appropriate amount of time could declare victory & claim (with some truth) the government had come to the end of the issues upon which all the parties can agree. Bad times demand bold moves blah, blah, blah. Statesman like statements thanking the Dippers & BQ for putting the nation first etc. but now - he needs a mandate for these troubled times. If one of the changes a coalition brings in is to raise the max. contribution limit, the Liberal party will suddenly be much more competitive with the Tory air war. It is the Dippers who would be in the pickle as they would be campaigning not on good management, but on the rest of their make-the-rich-pay platform. A new Grit leader as PM would have the middle ground what with the Tories on the other side shoring-up the base with more red-meat snarls. Power has disciplined the Tories, if they're now out of power, would the power of the Harper Kool-aid wear off?<BR/>But hey, what do I know? I took what folks said at the doors to be legit! 8-?JimmEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03703715618040666970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-90470897123230105182008-11-29T19:16:00.000-05:002008-11-29T19:16:00.000-05:00Actually Mobius, the US does have a public financi...<I>Actually Mobius, the US does have a public financing system for their elections, as do many European countries..</I><BR/><BR/>Seems like it's optional there. Did Obama not turn down public funding in the last campaign?<BR/><BR/>I assume that made it easier for him to accept corporate financing.Möbiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11851148006420274055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-45738833584443333822008-11-29T19:12:00.000-05:002008-11-29T19:12:00.000-05:00I think you need to come to grips with your conser...<I>I think you need to come to grips with your conservatism, and stop with the charade that you're just an unbiased observer.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't claim to be unbiased. Not sure where you get that from, and if you can find a completely unbiased observer, I'll show you someone who doesn't vote.<BR/><BR/>I am, however, relatively non-partisan in that I've voted for all parties at some time in my life (conservative, Liberal, Green, and even NDP), when I thought it was the right thing to do.Möbiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11851148006420274055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-49129139619958365212008-11-29T19:07:00.000-05:002008-11-29T19:07:00.000-05:00mushroomInteresting points for sure.mushroom<BR/><BR/>Interesting points for sure.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-81630991689971513632008-11-29T19:06:00.000-05:002008-11-29T19:06:00.000-05:00MobiusI think you need to come to grips with your ...Mobius<BR/><BR/>I think you need to come to grips with your conservatism, and stop with the charade that you're just an unbiased observer. No matter the issue, you find fault for the Libs, just go Con and look yourself in the mirror, because frankly I don't buy any of the qualifications.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-25689202282409239222008-11-29T19:02:00.000-05:002008-11-29T19:02:00.000-05:00Actually Mobius, the US does have a public financi...Actually Mobius, the US does have a public financing system for their elections, as do many European countries.. so this isn't some unique thing Chretien brought in. He had precedent to look at with other countries.<BR/><BR/>I note too, that there wasn't a WORD about killing public financing on Blogging Tory sites until Flaherty mentioned it 3 days ago.. and then suddenly it was shrieks of glee over there that the Cons were so smart in killing of any viable opposition to them during an election campaign.. followed by shrieks of outrage at parties sucking the public purse once to their horror they realized Harper wasn't going to get away with it.<BR/><BR/>As for me being optimistic, I hope Harper and his Cons keep being deluded into thinking this won't happen. In a way, the delay Harper did in chickening out of a non-confidence motion on MOnday and moving it back may have helped the opposition, by giving the opposition time to work on the details of how the Progressive Coalition might work.Oxford County Liberalshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12181314055142726735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-56793720976919931952008-11-29T19:00:00.000-05:002008-11-29T19:00:00.000-05:00See Scott Reid's piece in G&M. A must read...See Scott Reid's piece in G&M. A must read.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-20703002280229204532008-11-29T18:56:00.000-05:002008-11-29T18:56:00.000-05:00IF the Progressive Coalition (as I will be calling...<I>IF the Progressive Coalition (as I will be calling it the moment it gets formed and if it gets formed) passes bills and policies that help the economy out and show Canadians it is working, then your proclaimed death sentence will not come to pass.</I><BR/><BR/>You're very optimistic. Never will happen. Even Liberals on this blog are disagreeing vehemently about hypothetical PM's. Throw in Layton, and a separatist party that wants to show that Canada is a failure........<BR/><BR/>The next election, and there will be one in any case, will include campaigning about why separatists think your party is so keen.Möbiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11851148006420274055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-77701308623922004402008-11-29T18:53:00.000-05:002008-11-29T18:53:00.000-05:00I saw that the Cons have backed down, let's see if...<I>I saw that the Cons have backed down, let's see if there is more to come, because the opposition certainly can't accept just this announcement.</I><BR/><BR/>I'd like to see them re-introduce the motion, but reducing the subsidy by 10% per year for 10 years, to allow the parties time to find other sources of cash. How many other countries do this sort of thing?Möbiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11851148006420274055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-7669123346176763532008-11-29T18:49:00.000-05:002008-11-29T18:49:00.000-05:00Mobius:IF the Progressive Coalition (as I will be ...Mobius:<BR/><BR/>IF the Progressive Coalition (as I will be calling it the moment it gets formed and if it gets formed) passes bills and policies that help the economy out and show Canadians it is working, then your proclaimed death sentence will not come to pass. Surely you recognize that.Oxford County Liberalshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12181314055142726735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-11478445475011416332008-11-29T18:45:00.000-05:002008-11-29T18:45:00.000-05:00Any coalition (LPC + NDP = what? 114 vs. the CPC a...Any coalition (LPC + NDP = what? 114 vs. the CPC at 143) involving the BQ will be the end of the LPC in the next election.<BR/><BR/>Hate to be fatalistic, but I'm not a viscerally anti-LPC person, and I was warming up to an possibly Iggy-lead LPC, following the errors of the Harper CPC. However, seeing Chretien back in the news reminded of why I abandoned the Libs in 2003.<BR/><BR/>My opinion only, but I never voted PC again after Mulroney, and I think there's a core group of folks out there like myself, with really long political memories.Möbiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11851148006420274055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-46632203371665618332008-11-29T18:14:00.000-05:002008-11-29T18:14:00.000-05:00Look at these two quotes."I wouldn't say the train...Look at these two quotes.<BR/><BR/>"I wouldn't say the train has left the station but it's gathering speed," said John McCallum, chair of a Liberal economic advisory committee. <BR/><BR/>"At this point, it's difficult to believe anything this government says. I mean, it's clear that they are desperate so no matter what they say, how can we believe it, given their past record?" <BR/><BR/>Before the government reversal, Brison said Harper poisoned the atmosphere in Parliament. <BR/><BR/>"I see virtually no possibility of Stephen Harper being able to earn back the trust of this Parliament." <BR/><BR/>Tit for tat. Only Harper's resignation would be enough to help the Cons survive. This is from two senior Grit politicians who are definitely NOT fans of Stephane Dion and would want him out sooner.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-21496882195282125692008-11-29T18:02:00.000-05:002008-11-29T18:02:00.000-05:00A progressive coalition will address the needs of ...A progressive coalition will address the needs of Canadians. Fewer people will lose jobs, social services, and businesses with a progressive coalition. This is the reality.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com