tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post5706895014045607461..comments2023-10-22T09:18:16.885-04:00Comments on Far and Wide: A Tale Of Two "Issues"Steve Vhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-80315601195290958972010-05-27T21:01:08.837-04:002010-05-27T21:01:08.837-04:00Are there many private companies that let their wo...<i>Are there many private companies that let their workers fly their wife AND children around with them wherever they go?</i><br /><br />No, not in my experience. I travel frequently, and occasionally my wife will join me, but her costs are separated from mine and paid for by me. Private companies do not generally allow expensing of spousal travel because of CRS rules. I also do not travel business class 99% of the time. Those seats are taken by people with money, and politicians!<br /><br />I also do not claim trivial expenses, like gum or coffee, but some colleagues do.<br /><br />For MP's, I can see some differences, in that they are travelling from Ottawa to their various ridings, and are separated from family.<br /><br />Paying for business class on flights less than 4 or 5 hours is an unnecessary expense. The price can triple (or worse).<br /><br />Some private businesses do allow limited paid travel for seconded persons and families to their home country.Möbiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11851148006420274055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-77588609937205310682010-05-27T03:44:59.903-04:002010-05-27T03:44:59.903-04:00Steve V said...
I believe I said the opposition ...Steve V said...<br /><br /><br /><i>I believe I said the opposition would get zero traction on the Guergis matter. </i><br /><br /> And you were correct. Beats me why the politicians,the MSM and most Liberal/NDP bloggers couldn't figure that out...<br /><br /><i>As for the detainee question, the only reason it became such an issue, is because the gov't fought tooth and nail, </i><br /><br /> Also true, but in that case I don't think they had any choice. Looking at some of the juvenile antics of some opposition MPs (in particular the NDP, given their unceasing opposition to our presence in Aghanistan) I would certainly think twice about trusting them with any potentially sensitive information, especially anything that might involve the Americans..."loose lips" and all that...Fred from BChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12914558903316825761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-9825247776859315562010-05-26T15:06:03.583-04:002010-05-26T15:06:03.583-04:00I think those photos of his cute baby, will really...I think those photos of his cute baby, will really draw the ire of the public.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-24016311995928124232010-05-26T11:56:02.200-04:002010-05-26T11:56:02.200-04:00Steve what's your view on this?
http://www.ct...Steve what's your view on this?<br /><br />http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100525/bc_hiebert_spending_100525/20100525?hub=BritishColumbia<br />(<a href="http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100525/bc_hiebert_spending_100525/20100525?hub=BritishColumbia" rel="nofollow">here</a>)<br /><br /><br />Are there many private companies that let their workers fly their wife AND children around with them wherever they go? Why should the taxpayer fund it? Yet the rules as they are completely allow it.<br /><br />I understand that it's hard for an MP to leave their family behind when they go to Ottawa, but it's not like they are paid a poor salary ($158,000 a year absolutely dwarfs the national average), they can certainly afford to bring them on their own dime as anyone in the private sector would have to in similar circumstances. If we send the message that ALL MPs can do this and that's just fine, then you'd see MILLIONS more expensed for what in reality just amounts to creating more comfort for the MP, but not any actual extra work done as part of their duties.JJ99https://www.blogger.com/profile/01103904948035765419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-19297209368979821782010-05-25T11:36:07.810-04:002010-05-25T11:36:07.810-04:00oops, my bad. 500 million pardons :/oops, my bad. 500 million pardons :/Omarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12058734544373976550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-86902148082625708382010-05-24T23:56:21.108-04:002010-05-24T23:56:21.108-04:00no, the $500 million is the total cost of Parliame...no, the $500 million is the total cost of Parliament. That includes the salaries of all MPs and Senators and their staff and all the people who work on parliament hill in administration and security and all the expenses claimed by MPs. etc... <br /><br />We could save lots of money by shutting down Parliament and making Harper dictator for life - like his role model Oliver Cromwell.DLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11587165866597795302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-66369873671818328592010-05-24T11:20:26.459-04:002010-05-24T11:20:26.459-04:00First off, I firmly believe MP's should let Fr...<em>First off, I firmly believe MP's should let Fraser see the books..</em><br /><br />Lets do the math. Approximately 300 MPs spent approximately $500 million in expenses above and beyond their mandated salaries. That works out to be an average of $1.6 million per Member of Parliament. That is an outrageous number that needs to be accounted for and partisanship should play absolutely no role. I get so tired of these people saying one thing to Canadians and then doing quite the other. Open the books and lets just see who is the honest broker and who is not. If what just happened here in Nova Scotia is any indication there is going to be a whole lot of 'splainin to do.Omarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12058734544373976550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-49259639092485763472010-05-23T11:38:06.369-04:002010-05-23T11:38:06.369-04:00"Fraser wants to do an analysis of value for ..."Fraser wants to do an analysis of value for money spent - I think that's a great idea."<br /><br />In terms of "value for money" she might conclude that we would get more value for money if we had no parliament at all and simply had a military dictatorship!<br /><br />The media will try to beat up this issue until another issue comes along...DLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11587165866597795302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-85159071655778051572010-05-23T11:19:54.109-04:002010-05-23T11:19:54.109-04:00I could be that Milliken is the guy with the "...I could be that Milliken is the guy with the "moat".<br /><br />If so, his credibility melts away.<br /><br />Didn't Szabo say something about legal expenses for defense against harrassment suits by somebody or other? <br /><br />I think it would be that kind of hidden expense that would be the big wild card.Tommhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06072854015300215347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-6167213065682344942010-05-23T09:27:01.574-04:002010-05-23T09:27:01.574-04:00I think you see the first signs of the nonsense al...I think you see the first signs of the nonsense already today. Weston describes Milliken's Parliament apartment "luxurious", which Kady disputes, calling it "handy".Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-16590806319893470482010-05-23T06:21:43.547-04:002010-05-23T06:21:43.547-04:00You can see the problem already. Some are looking...You can see the problem already. Some are looking at certain expenses and making judgment, just like the media would do.<br /><br />Fraser wants to do an analysis of value for money spent - I think that's a great idea.<br /><br />I would think it more appropriate to (if she's allowed) wait for her analysis before jumping all over it.<br /><br />To me, it's already out of control as far as judgment is concerned.RuralSandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09552973218865121867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-13383658681442585512010-05-22T20:52:45.732-04:002010-05-22T20:52:45.732-04:00Really enjoyed the post and the comments.
There i...Really enjoyed the post and the comments.<br /><br />There is a lot of meat in the words being used.<br /><br />I think we can all agree that the media is extremely powerful and can draw our attention toward something and draw our attention away from something else with considerable ease. I can see this as one of the clearer lessons here.<br /><br />Also, I think it is telling that there is a right ~ left thing going on with the issue. Open books is very libertaian. It is more conservative to ask what the MPs are doing with the public purse than it is left wing. There is a least one comment here that speaks to this. This affects the coverage of it and the "gut" part of the reaction.<br /><br />Thirdly, it is interesting the way the different parties are responding to this. Both Harper and Ignatieff addressed this issue and both addressed it very differently. It speaks to how they function as leaders. Harper essentially challenged "parliament" to settle its own house affairs. Ignatieff led with a very different comment. We would probably have a good discussion on which response was preferred. The differences were certainly telling.<br /><br />This issue won't go away and quite frankly the media will work harder than any other story to not let this die. They want to peel this onion because the stories will write themselves and the media loves the dirty laundry. They even get to pick which laundry they wave around. <br /><br />La-Z-Boy journalism.Tommhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06072854015300215347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-72488510015932360432010-05-22T18:59:37.324-04:002010-05-22T18:59:37.324-04:00Ok Steve fair point. In truth I think that in the ...Ok Steve fair point. In truth I think that in the long-run it would help restore some trust. I'm guessing if expenses were made public, you find 5-6 MPs at most having been found (in the media's view) to have made some some inappropriate expenditures. Those people can surely defend themselves once it's all out in the open and Canadians (not the media I know) are a forgiving people. And wouldn't it be good to show that the other 300 MPs actually were totally above board. The thing with the apperance of wanting to hide it all is that it feeds an impression that's a large number of MPs abusing the system when I'm sure it's not the case.<br />Put it out all out there, some people might get hurt, but in the long run it will keep them all honest I think and lessons will be learned.JJ99https://www.blogger.com/profile/01103904948035765419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-40778654272975957622010-05-22T18:52:31.580-04:002010-05-22T18:52:31.580-04:00JJ
I don't disagree with the spirit, more the...JJ<br /><br />I don't disagree with the spirit, more the type of examples you gave. Is this going to be a serious initiative, or will it turn in to a distraction, that looks like a witch hunt?<br /><br />Fred<br /><br />I believe I said the opposition would get zero traction on the Guergis matter. As for the detainee question, the only reason it became such an issue, is because the gov't fought tooth and nail, even when the opposition was offering compromise, pre-prorogue I might add. I believe that is a fundamental issue, that the opposition was obligated to pursue.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-15434115625372681952010-05-22T18:47:23.199-04:002010-05-22T18:47:23.199-04:00Steve V said...
Here's the hesitation for me...Steve V said...<br /><br /><i> Here's the hesitation for me, I don't want two months more of Guergis like distraction, as everyone forgets about other issues, so we can bombard the public with daily details of how a certain MP tried the 10 year old scotch one night. </i><br /><br /><br /> That's the real bottom line here, and weren't you the guy saying that very same thing more than a month ago? There are one or two other Liberal bloggers on the same page, but for the most part they all side with the MP's and news media who inexplicably dropped everything else to pursue this story with a passion rarely seen today; they've done the same with the Afghan detainee thing and a couple of other issues.<br /> <br /> The problem is, they seem reluctant to let go even when the polls show that the Canadian public isn't jumping on board...as if they are either afraid to 'lose face' by backing down, or think that if they continue to hang on they will eventually discover the Smoking Gun that brings the Conservative government crashing down. Not a winning strategy so far, and worse still they don't seem to be learning anything from their failures thus far.<br /><br /> The NDP, of all people, have been trying to move the discussions to topics more in tune with the mood of the public, but in my opinion they simply lack the credibility to make it happen. Too bad, really...because they are quite right: there are many more important things that we should be looking at and spending our time and energies on...Fred from BChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12914558903316825761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-21642182972868109892010-05-22T17:54:24.220-04:002010-05-22T17:54:24.220-04:00Ok Steve, but does making these expenses public no...Ok Steve, but does making these expenses public not avoid outright abuse?<br /><br />Under the rules, someone could buy a $10,000 plasma screen TV for their office. Who cares I guess?<br /><br />They can fly their staffers in for a party and then send them home within 24 hours.<br /><br />They can classify any expense as "Other".<br /><br />I'm sorry but at a time of massive deficit, I do believe that thousands of dollars are not trivial.<br /><br />MPs are paid $156,000 a year minimum. They get 64 return trips across Canada a year for them and their staffers. I'm sorry but it's not to much to ask that they tell us what they spent $200,000 in expenses on (look at that link again many MPs claimed over $200,000 in expenses in addition to their salary and some of these don't live too far from Ottawa). <br /><br />If the media quibble over some people's expenses, these <i>politicians are big boys, I'm sure they can handle it. </i><br /><br />Cabinet ministers are already exposed to far more invasiveness, we in fact DO know far more about what they are spending on meals, etc.... If they can manage, why can't our MPs?JJ99https://www.blogger.com/profile/01103904948035765419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-78766448936170450692010-05-22T17:06:24.131-04:002010-05-22T17:06:24.131-04:00I am starting to get annoyed with the whole notion...I am starting to get annoyed with the whole notion of referring to government funds as "our money". We are paying for a set of services with this money that I don't feel are any different from any other set of goods or services. According to free-market principles, if I want to choose to live in a different place, there is a different cost and I am free to choose where to live, and how much to pay for the bundle of services that I receive. If I think the money is being misused after I pay it, I should have as much right to examine the expense accounts of the folks in charge as I do with any other entity to which I pay out.<br /><br />There are no other goods or services that we purchase, that after we hand over payment continue to refer to the funds paid as "our money". It is merely a notion created by right-wingers to diminish the value of government.Dan Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16748983441289138048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-8108904731570681662010-05-22T16:37:27.972-04:002010-05-22T16:37:27.972-04:00Did it ever dawn on you that a Toronto MP might wa...Did it ever dawn on you that a Toronto MP might want to visit THE REST OF THE COUNTRY as part of his/her portfolio? It's a big country, and an even BIGGER world.<br /><br />As for first class, if they need to get work done, I have no qualms whatsoever. These people, and the media will acknowledge, work tirelessly, so no I'm not going to get all uppity over every little thing.<br /><br />As for flying out to the Olympics, call me old fashioned, but having our national representatives attend the games isn't exactly OUTRAGEOUS.<br /><br />Sheesh, if this is the type of crap we must digest for two months, I'll pass thanks.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-89162828588379209072010-05-22T16:23:40.964-04:002010-05-22T16:23:40.964-04:00Steve under the rules, MPs could buy their own tic...Steve under the rules, MPs could buy their own ticket (and yes some were there), but expense the flight to taxpayers. What's the cost of a first class flight to Vancouver again just for the purposes of the Olympics?<br /><br />What about the other issues? <br />Is it warranted in your view if a Ontario Conservative MP travels from Ottawa to Vancouver purely for a fundraiser on the taxpayer dime? What about doing six or seven of such fundraisers on first-class tickets?<br /><br />$125,000 in travel expenses on the taxpayer dime for a Toronto area MP is no big deal? Why do Toronto MPs pay half as much? Or is $50,000 in money saved trivial?<br /><br />$75,000 in printing costs trivial? When some spend only a few thousand?<br /><br />What about those that claimed thousands of dollars in "Other"?JJ99https://www.blogger.com/profile/01103904948035765419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-37915938925356065692010-05-22T15:40:52.584-04:002010-05-22T15:40:52.584-04:00"How many MPs flew on the taxpayer dime to en..."How many MPs flew on the taxpayer dime to enjoy the Vancouver Olympics?"<br /><br />Actually, in this silly politically correct country, MP's weren't even allowed to accept tickets.<br /><br />Trivial is right.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-6138930331625324782010-05-22T15:34:44.694-04:002010-05-22T15:34:44.694-04:00Steve these are not "modest expenses".
...Steve these are not "modest expenses".<br /><br />Take a look at the numbers yourself:<br />http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/about/process/house/GeneraLInformation/MembersExpenses-2008-2009-e.pdf<br /><a href="http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/about/process/house/GeneraLInformation/MembersExpenses-2008-2009-e.pdf" rel="nofollow"> see here</a><br /><br />Gary Goodyear spends $75,000 on printing?<br />Some Toronto MPs spending MORE on travel than the Yukon and some BC MPs? Others spending half as much?<br />An MP spending over $125,000 on travel is nothing to scoff at.<br /><br />These expenses tell us something, but for all your talk of media manufacture, <i>how many articles have you seen that gave the actual link above?</i><br /><br /><b>But there is a A LOT these numbers do NOT tell us</b><br /><br />How many MPs are flying first class? <br /><br />How many MPs are using their expenses accounts to pay for travel to attend political fundraisers in far corners of the country? The rules say they get 64 return trips between Ottawa and ANYWHERE in Canada, it doesn't have to be their constituency.<br /><br />How many MPs flew on the taxpayer dime to enjoy the Vancouver Olympics?<br /><br />These are not matters like simply expensing a shampoo, we are talking about $500 million dollars total in expenses here. <br /><br />I could care less about trivial expenses that were under $100, but any MP that buys first-class flights to partisan or non-constituency matter related events and bills the taxpayer may be obeying the guidelines but is that the way it SHOULD be?<br /><br />Or do you think such concerns are trivial Steve?<br /><br />If MPs have nothing to hide, then why are ANY MPs resisting the Auditor General doing her job?JJ99https://www.blogger.com/profile/01103904948035765419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-78120964892099786522010-05-22T15:17:03.198-04:002010-05-22T15:17:03.198-04:00Advertisements contain the only truths to be relie...Advertisements contain the only truths to be relied on in a newspaper - Mark TwainRuralSandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09552973218865121867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-9066634278222094342010-05-22T14:23:10.169-04:002010-05-22T14:23:10.169-04:00I will say to, I have no doubt your concern is ent...I will say to, I have no doubt your concern is entirely genuine and purely philosophical in nature.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-14801838606055037432010-05-22T14:21:14.655-04:002010-05-22T14:21:14.655-04:00" Now, they're doing their job and you..." Now, they're doing their job and you're faulting them."<br /><br />The question is, why are they doing their job? Is it because of a serious commitment, or is it the lure of possible STENCH. Here's the hesitation for me, I don't want two months more of Guergis like distraction, as everyone forgets about other issues, so we can bombard the public with daily details of how a certain MP tried the 10 year old scotch one night. If there are serious infractions, fine, but I suspect we will get caught up on the relative trivial, in the grand scheme.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-35350936727778085062010-05-22T14:17:53.353-04:002010-05-22T14:17:53.353-04:00JB
I don't claim to be an expert on the topic...JB<br /><br />I don't claim to be an expert on the topic, but MP's have to submit their expenses for approval, so it's not like this is the wild west, wherein people are just blowing money on whatever they choose. The budgets are limited, some don't even exhaust their full expenditure.<br /><br />I'm sorry, but with all the issues of the day, the singular fixation on a mostly hill of beans presentation is more media generated distraction, than serious pursuit. Are we trying to ensure that nobody wants to run for public office? They can't take a free ticket to a hockey game, we pay them the same salary as mid tier manager, everything they do is scrutinized, and yet we have another outrage to squeeze people even more. It's no wonder many talented people take a pass, because being a public servant ain't all it's cracked up to be.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.com