tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post5877268052237948599..comments2023-10-22T09:18:16.885-04:00Comments on Far and Wide: The Nasty, Divisive PatriotSteve Vhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-78422652259956942052009-05-31T12:39:54.809-04:002009-05-31T12:39:54.809-04:00Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does ...Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiently or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else.<br />- Theodore Roosevelt<br /><br /><br />A Prince, whose character is ... marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free People. <br /><br />Thomas Jefferson<br />Declaration of IndependenceRuralSandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09552973218865121867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-25906607235548373212009-05-31T08:55:20.019-04:002009-05-31T08:55:20.019-04:00Anonymous, this site is a good place to start.Anonymous, <A HREF="http://www.harperindex.ca/ShowCategory.cfm?Show=Cat3" REL="nofollow">this</A> site is a good place to start.sjwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16425560486235905508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-8276759381594371112009-05-31T00:33:49.628-04:002009-05-31T00:33:49.628-04:00Michael Ignatieff is as American as Barack Obama i...Michael Ignatieff is as American as Barack Obama is Muslim...<br /><br />HOW DID THAT WORK OUT FOR THE REPUBLICANS!<br /><br />(caps makes it true)Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04018582124108708061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-4341018409758172302009-05-30T20:49:12.332-04:002009-05-30T20:49:12.332-04:00Hi I know its a little bit off topic, but does any...Hi I know its a little bit off topic, but does anyone know a site where I can find all the wonderful things Harper has done to Canada? I'm planning to make a video about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-40407210034175719502009-05-30T16:28:52.189-04:002009-05-30T16:28:52.189-04:00I don't know - I would probably describe Harper as...I don't know - I would probably describe Harper as being more patriotic too, if the question were: "who is more patriotic, Ignatieff or Harper". Harper is the guy who stayed in Canada, so I think it is a natural answer, even though I know from personal knowledge one can live outside the country and be patriotic.<br /><br />In fact, while outside the country I participated in more overt demonstrations of my love for Canada than I do now. I never missed a Canada Day party (the best was the one at the Maple Leaf Pub in London). If Ignatieff ever attended such a party, or hosted one, in his years away, it might be wise for him to disclose that. Of course, if he didn't...<br /><br />More than that - everyone knew I was Canadian. I continued to follow politics here, and always spoke of my country as being the best place in the world to live. Again, it might assist Ignatieff if some of his friends just happened to mention that he often spoke of his love for Canada while living overseas...<br /><br />If I were asked who would be the better Prime Minister, Harper or Ignatieff, my answer would be Ignatieff.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-75153965190752823722009-05-30T13:37:50.756-04:002009-05-30T13:37:50.756-04:00""You know that f*ckin' Michael Whathisname isn't ...""You know that f*ckin' Michael Whathisname isn't even Canadian? I don't want a f*ckin' American coming up and stealing our country." <br /><br /><br />And, I'll guarantee someone like that has NEVER and will NEVER vote Liberal anyways, so who CARES?Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-69140689804036014512009-05-30T13:19:58.677-04:002009-05-30T13:19:58.677-04:00I should add, I think that Ignatieff's lower numbe...I should add, I think that Ignatieff's lower numbers in Ontario can easily be corrected. One Tory blogger back in 2004 argued that after Rae's surprising election in 1990, Ontarioans have been cautious about changing governments (remember in 2004, the Liberals and Tories were tied in Ontario, yet the Liberals won 3/4 of the seats on election day proving the pollsters wrong). So if anything the more Michael Ignatieff becomes known to Ontarioans and the better he can show he is the right change, his numbers should improve. Stephen Harper is not well liked in Ontario but he is more of a known quantity than Ignatieff at the moment. In Quebec, on the contrary they like to take chances with someone they don't know well, witness Harper's breakthrough in 2006 when he was barely known in Quebec and if Quebecers knew more about his background I somehow doubt he would have made the breakthrough he did.Monkey Loves to Fighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05122291567543761919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-84527821605661021482009-05-30T12:42:39.523-04:002009-05-30T12:42:39.523-04:00On the economy, that is definitely showing the Tor...On the economy, that is definitely showing the Tories weaknesses, although it does seem there is a bit of a divide between Quebec and English Canada. Ignatieff is without question doing better on almost every question in Quebec, but Harper still leads on most in English Canada. Now true his massive leads in Alberta might skew things a bit, but he still has a bit of work to do in the West and Ontario.<br /><br />As for his positioning, I would say centrist for Ignatieff myself. Mind you centre, left, right have are relative so I would say right wing in the Scandinavian countries while left wing in the United States relative to your average voter in those countries, but centrist here in Canada.Monkey Loves to Fighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05122291567543761919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-66837684163152824562009-05-30T12:22:55.590-04:002009-05-30T12:22:55.590-04:00... And if Harper was a true party patriot, he cou...... And if Harper was a true party patriot, he could salt the ground to poison both Ignatieff and himself, then ruefully resign this fall to create a garden path for his successor. I seriously doubt he has that kind of character in him, but having lived through Bill Bennett - a guy who seriously needed a comeuppance but spoiled it by retiring before his time - I'm concerned that the man who couldn't trump a ganged-up-on Dion may understand some of his own obstacles.burlivespipehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048415779214466831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-83396744258333783562009-05-30T12:20:22.465-04:002009-05-30T12:20:22.465-04:00What puzzles me is how Harper has manifested his r...What puzzles me is how Harper has manifested his record into a 'sense of patriotism'... It's completely manufactured, considering his actions and words of the past (and even not-so past). The media seems to accept a statute of limitations on Harper's past but believe everythings fair-game on Ignatieff. The well-oiled CON-bots flood the letters pages, online talk shows and comment boards en masse with their pre-written blather and boobs like Bill Good eat it up as gospel.<br />The disheartening thing is that the CONs bankroll suggests they can continue this act unabated until an election; meanwhile, whenever anything comes down to questioning them, it's 'partisan run amok'.<br />We definitely need to counter this, but I don't know if Ignatieff wants to get in the dirt. Staying on the high ground has its benefits, but John Kerry may have some advice on that, too.burlivespipehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048415779214466831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-37050765129597707242009-05-30T10:10:41.113-04:002009-05-30T10:10:41.113-04:00I understand patriotism is important in 'tactical ...I understand patriotism is important in 'tactical politics' and must not be ignored. I guess Iggy must start wearing bigger and bigger lapel pins, etc.<br /><br />However I'm pretty tired of it. Patriotism is now synonymous with 'belief in an ideal country'. <br /><br />The patriotic left imagines (perhaps) a country with more progressive ideals, social justice and protection for minorities.<br /><br />The patriotic right imagines (perhaps) a country with more traditional ideals, more individual responsibilities, smaller government, less interference and lower taxes.<br /><br />Each side accuses the other of being unpatriotic when they don't line up with their own definition of patriotism. I think U.S. right wing commentators (NOT journalists) have taken to defining patriotism as 100% agreement with themselves (which occasionally pits them against each other tom my amusement). E.g. if you don't agree with Sean Hannity you're unpatriotic and hate America. <br /><br />So, getting back to tactics, should we define patriotism EXPLICITLY in such way to undermine Harper? Are we already doing it, and could we improve or focus our efforts?Brad Dillmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13247350574583774744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-51166578028348060272009-05-30T09:55:14.064-04:002009-05-30T09:55:14.064-04:00Can cheezy ads really counter the reality of Harpe...<I>Can cheezy ads really counter the reality of Harper's personality and his record?</I>Yes. My neighbor three days ago:<br /><br /><B>"You know that f*ckin' Michael Whathisname isn't even Canadian? I don't want a f*ckin' American coming up and stealing our country."</B> <br /><br />I hate to write this, but voters have become pridefully ignorant.<br /><br />I didn't think we needed to run ads and go dirty, but clearly we have to, or else it will be Harper forever. If we don't play his game, we will lose again.<br />--<br />Paul RaposoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-36771114566029116932009-05-30T09:51:25.506-04:002009-05-30T09:51:25.506-04:00Constance,
Hard to say with no horserace number. ...Constance,<br /><br />Hard to say with no horserace number. I don't know why SC couldn't just ad that to the survey.bigcitylibhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05081538803991095825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-91455949579891627332009-05-30T09:45:38.550-04:002009-05-30T09:45:38.550-04:00This poll, on the surface seems very disconcerting...This poll, on the surface seems very disconcerting.Can cheezy ads really counter the reality of Harper's personality and his record?Constant Vigilancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03839753866104400007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-88159537990969389122009-05-30T08:54:21.249-04:002009-05-30T08:54:21.249-04:00Hmmmm - patriotism.
Which leader respect "Canadia...Hmmmm - patriotism.<br /><br />Which leader respect "Canadian" institutions and which one doesn't.<br /><br />Which leader understands and respects our parliamentary system and which one doesn't.<br /><br />Which leader truly understands international issues and which one doesn't.<br /><br />Which leader can say he loves Canada and which just can't quite say it.<br /><br />Which leader seized opportunities and made a success of himself internationally and which one spent his time doing speeches in right wing think tanks putting down Canada?<br /><br />Which leader was born in Ontario, but loves the "whole" country and which leader was born in Ontario but attacked it frequently until he needed votes?<br /><br />...we could go on and on....RuralSandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09552973218865121867noreply@blogger.com