tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post772041716289950687..comments2023-10-22T09:18:16.885-04:00Comments on Far and Wide: The Liberal Election DanceSteve Vhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-27569656998177972902008-04-10T19:21:00.000-04:002008-04-10T19:21:00.000-04:00"go outside your little Lib circles and ask averag..."go outside your little Lib circles and ask average people what they think"<BR/><BR/>Jim, and you chide others for potshots. At least the hypocrisy is consistent.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-51442843908050852962008-04-10T18:53:00.000-04:002008-04-10T18:53:00.000-04:00"Bringing down the government when the teachers wi..."Bringing down the government when the teachers will be too busy to help out the Liberals, and university students are on the move and not concentrated in winnable ridings, is one of the stupidest things Dion could possibly do."<BR/><BR/>Actually, that is some of the stupidest reasoning to avoid an election I've heard.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-46210791424330402462008-04-10T12:48:00.000-04:002008-04-10T12:48:00.000-04:00Bringing down the government when the teachers wil...Bringing down the government when the teachers will be too busy to help out the Liberals, and university students are on the move and not concentrated in winnable ridings, is one of the stupidest things Dion could possibly do.<BR/><BR/>A mid to late June election will guarentee a Tory Majority.<BR/><BR/>I already believe that Harper will call Guelph for the third week in June regardless; but for Dion to call the whole country then, is political suicide.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-74019205917425491002008-04-10T11:51:00.000-04:002008-04-10T11:51:00.000-04:00KC, I do live in the Lower Mainland and yes there ...KC, I do live in the Lower Mainland and yes there are labour shortages at all levels, but the trades are absolutely desperate. I know this first hand. There are lots of labourers and few technicians.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14984716150769477615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-46390193909202259002008-04-10T11:48:00.000-04:002008-04-10T11:48:00.000-04:00Why do you folks always have to throw in a jab at ...Why do you folks always have to throw in a jab at the end? IMO it does not add to your credibility. Your barb begs the question though, are your talking points supplied by the Power Corp.?<BR/><BR/>Anyhow Scott, the only poll that counts is on election day...bring it on. Watching and listening to the joke that is the official opposition is getting painful.<BR/><BR/>I would love to see the Libs grow some cajones and bring down the government. At least then they would be seen to take a stand on SOMETHING. Would someone please bring me up to speed on the current Liberal policies and platform...oh thats right, they don't have any.<BR/><BR/>I have to ask...do any of you actually believe that the Libs can WIN an election?Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14984716150769477615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-70201812184954811732008-04-10T11:42:00.000-04:002008-04-10T11:42:00.000-04:00Jim if you actually lived in the West you would kn...Jim if you actually lived in the West you would know that in many places we need unskilled labour as bad as we need skilled labour. <BR/><BR/>I wonder why the government isnt focusing on trying to get immigrants to settle where they are most needed--in the West--rather than congregating in Ontario which is in an economic slump and presumably doesnt need much more labour. Is that even possible?KChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932623568330893522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-228271812640743772008-04-10T11:33:00.000-04:002008-04-10T11:33:00.000-04:00Nice try Jim, but the Tories are down in Ontario a...Nice try Jim, but the Tories are down in Ontario and the Maritimes, and would lose seats according to polls - enough to lose power, according to some pollsters.<BR/><BR/>Glad to see you got your Tory talking points along with your Con Kool-Aid though.Oxford County Liberalshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12181314055142726735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-74211180436888858172008-04-10T11:29:00.000-04:002008-04-10T11:29:00.000-04:00Yes please, lets have an election so that the Libs...Yes please, lets have an election so that the Libs can be pared down to 20 or so seats.<BR/><BR/>Be careful what you wish for...go outside your little Lib circles and ask average people what they think...the Libs under Dion are doomed out here in the West. I suspect the sentiment is national. Average folk are pretty happy with the Harper government.<BR/><BR/>BTW, in my opinion, C-50 is good law. Canada needs more doctors, engineers and skilled craftsmen...not cab drivers and chambermaids. Unskilled workers should certainly be welcome but only after those with serious credentials.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14984716150769477615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-86774600904830579532008-04-10T07:16:00.000-04:002008-04-10T07:16:00.000-04:00Steve, if the Liberal Party was serious about an e...Steve, if the Liberal Party was serious about an election on this, why not just defeat the government on this vote? Or if they didn't want to vote on an NDP motion, why didn't they come up with a similar motion of their own? I think you are just engaging in wishful thinking. By voting again for the government, the Liberals have just handed the NDP another campaign ad, in about 100 different languages.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06509182679650412982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-8973298838449111362008-04-09T23:39:00.000-04:002008-04-09T23:39:00.000-04:00mushroomI see your point, but I honestly don't see...mushroom<BR/><BR/>I see your point, but I honestly don't see how immigration is used to hurt the Liberals, if anything it fires up some core voters, and will engage them in any election. Pretty risky for Harper, certainly not a clear "plus" issue for the Cons, with some potential to blowup in their faces.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-46408685407279302942008-04-09T23:35:00.000-04:002008-04-09T23:35:00.000-04:00"If anyone on the Con team thinks this is the issu..."If anyone on the Con team thinks this is the issue they want to start a campaign on, then I hope they have a key role moving forward,"<BR/><BR/>Note the Bouchard-Taylor Commission on reasonable accommodation is due as C-50 is stuck on committee. Immigration will play a major role. Harper is calculating that he will use this issue to poison Dion's credibility once and for all. Give Quebec the right to demand which immigrants they want to accept within its nationalist framework.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-59550809662641904512008-04-09T23:31:00.000-04:002008-04-09T23:31:00.000-04:00kcAll you have to do is look at the expenditure, t...kc<BR/><BR/>All you have to do is look at the expenditure, the money Finlay is offering to deal with the problem. It's an objective joke, which speaks to real sincerity. Look at the money, and go from there, because even if you conclude it's valid, it is toothless, it can't deal with the problem.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-366362824728173602008-04-09T23:30:00.000-04:002008-04-09T23:30:00.000-04:00"the liberals have to have an election over this."..."the liberals have to have an election over this."<BR/><BR/>Not sure if Dion can count on his backbench to abstain. It is a vote loser to many, especially in Grit safe seats.<BR/><BR/>Dion can buy some time, but this means that he needs to declare the throne speech in the fall dead on arrival. Harper will use the throne speech as a campaign platform irregardless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-41985078960551013852008-04-09T23:29:00.001-04:002008-04-09T23:29:00.001-04:00joeYou're about as deep as a bird bath :)joe<BR/><BR/>You're about as deep as a bird bath :)Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-42424830891705987272008-04-09T23:29:00.000-04:002008-04-09T23:29:00.000-04:00kc - I am not sure what you see is without merit h...kc - I am not sure what you see is without merit here. Immigration based on policy rather than discretion is a valid objective.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-65425605957892966652008-04-09T23:28:00.000-04:002008-04-09T23:28:00.000-04:00"Their second point on refugee children who want t..."Their second point on refugee children who want their families to come to Canada is far more valid."<BR/><BR/>Given what is happening with refugees, this government has no credibility on that score. If you look at the record, it's abysmal.<BR/><BR/>gayle<BR/><BR/>I know Harper has been trying to find ways to force an election, I just don't think this little manoeuver was part of that push. I think these reforms have been on the table for months, and they held back because they didn't want to introduce them, and possibly undo the "outreach". When the Liberals supported the budget, compromised on Afghanistan, I think they saw an opportunity to slip this in, get it through and move on. I honestly think their opinion of the Liberals is so low at the moment, they honestly didn't see this as a trigger. If anyone on the Con team thinks this is the issue they want to start a campaign on, then I hope they have a key role moving forward, this isn't smart, you're not playing to your strengths at all, in fact you are giving the Libs a chance to motivate. Seems a strange want.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-47176471862590922992008-04-09T23:24:00.000-04:002008-04-09T23:24:00.000-04:00Wow a June election. What year?Wow a June election. What year?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-75105440573297560902008-04-09T23:21:00.000-04:002008-04-09T23:21:00.000-04:00Steve - Just because someone raises concerns--be t...Steve - Just because someone raises concerns--be they your "base" or anyone else--doesnt mean you need to pander to them if they are without merit.KChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932623568330893522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-39634018762721460272008-04-09T23:20:00.000-04:002008-04-09T23:20:00.000-04:00Maybe I missed something, but doesn't this legisla...Maybe I missed something, but doesn't this legislation apply to people who are not already in Canada? <BR/><BR/>If I am correct then kc your comment about how the minister's decision is reviewable is true, but ineffective. Do you think someone outside Canada applying for landed immigrant status will have the means to apply for judicial review of a decision of the minister to allow someone else to jump the queue?<BR/><BR/>Steve - the liberals have to have an election over this. I believe the cons know that, and that is why they put this provision into the budget bill. This is not about sneaking in a change - it is about forcing an election on an issue the cons know will affect the liberal core support, but not the con's.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-85359659948506247622008-04-09T23:19:00.000-04:002008-04-09T23:19:00.000-04:00Here is one pro-immigrant body's analysis of the c...Here is one pro-immigrant body's analysis of the changes: http://statusnow.org/content/view/25/7/<BR/><BR/>Once again I dont see what all the fuss is about. Heaven forbid the processing of immigration applications is geared towards the "attainment of the immigration goals established by the Government of Canadaā€¯.<BR/><BR/>Their second point on refugee children who want their families to come to Canada is far more valid. But the change only seems to be from the Minister having to review their application to the Minister having a choice in the matter. When we're only talking about "reviewing" applications the difference seems mostly semantics.KChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932623568330893522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-30710260939282556412008-04-09T23:15:00.000-04:002008-04-09T23:15:00.000-04:00"Im not sure that this has NO precedent although I..."Im not sure that this has NO precedent although I must confess to not being aware of any."<BR/><BR/>This is what the Americans do, attach unrelated matters onto another bill, it isn't the Canadian tradition. <BR/><BR/>BTW, it isn't pandering when you base raises concerns.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-3014968601642236132008-04-09T23:10:00.000-04:002008-04-09T23:10:00.000-04:00Steve - Im not sure that this has NO precedent alt...Steve - Im not sure that this has NO precedent although I must confess to not being aware of any. <BR/><BR/>Im happy with debate Im just not sure what the big deal is per se with this proposal. I mean some people might not like the potential for emphasizing economic class immigrants over family class immigrants but it seems like a pretty legitimate policy choice by government to me. Canada needs skilled workers. That SHOULD be a priority. <BR/><BR/>The whole approach of the Liberals on this issue seems like pandering and fearmongering.KChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932623568330893522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-6248482007841310402008-04-09T23:00:00.000-04:002008-04-09T23:00:00.000-04:00Scott - It is well established in administrative l...Scott - It is well established in administrative law that discretionary decisions--even those by a Minister--can be reviewed by the courts to ensure that they dont offend Charter rights and other legal principles.<BR/><BR/>I've also read that nothing about these new provisions dont allow the Minister to refuse an applicant after a decision has been made by the administrative body. All it allows is the issuance of instructions which, to me, sounds a lot like the making of regulations. That isnt that controversial as most statutes allow for that type of "discretion". In fact Im surprised that the Minister doesnt have that power already.KChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932623568330893522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-32682539961027010192008-04-09T22:38:00.000-04:002008-04-09T22:38:00.000-04:00kcIt comes down to trust, the Minister receives di...kc<BR/><BR/>It comes down to trust, the Minister receives discretionary powers. The fact they introduce these reforms, through the backdoor, in a way with no parliamentary precedent, brings that trust into question, makes you suspicious beyond the talking points. And, from what I can gather, some in the opposition acknowledge, or want to consider it, but the money alloted is so feeble to be laughable, and the process hasn't been open. Let's have a discussion, why is the government introducing a fundamental issue in this way? People won't support giving the government more power, unless they convince, and these tactics speak to less than forthright motivations.<BR/><BR/><BR/>IMHO, the government became arrogant, thought they could just ram this through a impotent opposition, but their two clever by half routine actually points a spotlight on their motivations, an issue which they've always been vulnerable on. Plus, when you couple these reforms with what is apparently happening with refugees, the backlog ballooning, it feeds a negative narrative that they have desperately tried to shake. There have been a couple old Reformer reminders in the past few weeks, and I doubt this is where the Conservatives wanted an election.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-34661138416762658862008-04-09T22:34:00.000-04:002008-04-09T22:34:00.000-04:00adequate safeguards?Full ministerial discretion? w...adequate safeguards?<BR/><BR/>Full ministerial discretion? without needing to use criteria ?<BR/><BR/>Give your head a shake KC.cccOxford County Liberalshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12181314055142726735noreply@blogger.com