tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post8075509482628740571..comments2023-10-22T09:18:16.885-04:00Comments on Far and Wide: Maybe A Good Thing?Steve Vhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-19128218351060153012008-11-04T19:55:00.000-05:002008-11-04T19:55:00.000-05:00It's a mute point now, Rae will run"Moot point" no...<I>It's a mute point now, Rae will run</I><BR/><BR/>"Moot point" not mute point.<BR/><BR/>Similar idea, though.<BR/><BR/>Can't stand Rae at all, too bad Manley is backing out.Möbiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11851148006420274055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-15687202545713619552008-11-02T14:36:00.000-05:002008-11-02T14:36:00.000-05:00The problem is not the topline numbers of positive...The problem is not the topline numbers of positive/negative/unsure, the problem is where these guys stand among Liberal/NDP/Green switchers vs. Liberal/Conservative switchers. <BR/><BR/>If Ignatieff wants to keep from bleeding out on his left side, he's going to have to play more of a progressive than he has to date. And he doesn't seem inclined to.<BR/><BR/>Rae has the same problem on the right side, though that side appears less volatile.Demostheneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14552994996411944134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-9305172316458412052008-11-02T11:01:00.000-05:002008-11-02T11:01:00.000-05:00mushroomThe only thing, NOTHING Kennedy proposed w...mushroom<BR/><BR/>The only thing, NOTHING Kennedy proposed was adopted, so the same spiel is still relevant.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-70452878098234956812008-11-02T10:24:00.000-05:002008-11-02T10:24:00.000-05:00So this is the way it is beginning to shape up:Rae...So this is the way it is beginning to shape up:<BR/><BR/>Rae/Iggy - establishment candidates<BR/>Leblanc/Kennedy - renewal candidates<BR/>Manley - "conservative" candidate (I hope he stays out)<BR/><BR/>Findlay or Bennett basically need to run or its going to look like the old boys network. Cauchon should run otherwise Quebec is not going to be represented. <BR/><BR/>I am wondering if Mcguinty has the potential to come up the middle?<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, it might be a large field, which will divide up the fundraising.liberazzihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14798202757576009552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-38068350072579796192008-11-02T09:42:00.000-05:002008-11-02T09:42:00.000-05:00"Apparently, Kennedy is ready to announce and plan..."Apparently, Kennedy is ready to announce and plans to be the "renewal" candidate."<BR/><BR/>As a Kennedy supporter the last time, I don't want him to say the same spiel once more. He has to be better this time before I can be convinced.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-1179777462613732992008-11-02T08:58:00.000-05:002008-11-02T08:58:00.000-05:00I'm a bit surprised to hear the Kennedy angle. Th...I'm a bit surprised to hear the Kennedy angle. That certainly changes the dynamics drastically.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-80263325738614671982008-11-02T08:05:00.000-05:002008-11-02T08:05:00.000-05:00Apparently, Kennedy is ready to announce and plans...Apparently, Kennedy is ready to announce and plans to be the "renewal" candidate. I think it is going to be an interesting race with some distinct choices. I just hope it is a respectful campaign. We do not need to give the CPC ammunition like last time.liberazzihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14798202757576009552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-29092133575211544612008-11-02T03:23:00.000-05:002008-11-02T03:23:00.000-05:00"with what funds exactly? You honestly don't think..."with what funds exactly? You honestly don't think the Liberals would have done that with Dion if they had any MONEY?"<BR/><BR/>Money will be a problem. But look who can fundraise the easiest. Rae cleaned his debts out the easiest. So he may rally the rank and file more easier than Dion.<BR/><BR/>Who knows. The party may be damaged goods if we still continue to trail the NDP in attracting donors. Thomas Mulcair as the next French Canadian PM, anyone???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-74284391690249402472008-11-02T01:35:00.000-05:002008-11-02T01:35:00.000-05:00In 06 I supported Rae; he fits with my personal le...In 06 I supported Rae; he fits with my personal left-of-centre views and came across as refreshing, a part of party renewal. But I think my choice now will be taking a different angle, not less principled, but from a stance that we now know who and what our enemies are. Just as Harper's tacking right incrementally, his chops at the Liberal party have been incremental, in some regards. The last election - less about racking up a majority (oh he wanted it, but it needed a complete implosion of Bloc and Liberal support in specific regions) but equally about applying 18 cuts at his main opposition. And just like he expected, Dion without the caucus support, it has thrown us into another leadership race. So I will listen to Ignatieff, Rae and the others but will be considering elements that weren't so obviously on the radar last time, like a) depth of grass roots support, b) caucus and brain trust support, c) fund raising abilities, and d) toughness and agility. Yes, ideas will trump all. But we need someone who can withstand a pummelling - I believe it will be Layton who will be the pointman to an Iggy-led party, and can he/we handle that? Can Rae's experience be turned into a positive, when Harper will be swinging it like an axe? Who will be the candidate who can step forward and present our ideas clearly, and at the same time go on the attack of the others? Unlike Harper, Ignatieff stepped forward and tried to make amends with his support of the Iraq invasion. It likely won't fly with dyed-in-the-wool Ndpers, but we weren't going to get their votes anyways. Who is best to implement a fundraising answer to our current dilemma, who can take advantage of what we can learn from the democrats down south but also inspire the team here at home?<BR/>It's a lot of sifting, but if its the same candidates (for the most part) as last time, I'm currently leaning to Ignatieff at least for now.burlivespipehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048415779214466831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-80291386774505504092008-11-02T01:30:00.000-05:002008-11-02T01:30:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.burlivespipehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048415779214466831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-63001833666130448632008-11-02T00:21:00.000-04:002008-11-02T00:21:00.000-04:00Hey, personal perspectiveI supported and fundraise...Hey, personal perspective<BR/><BR/>I supported and fundraised for Ignatieff in 2006 and now with McKenna out of the running, I will probably do the same this time around. A lot of the friends I signed up during 2006, non-partisans who are not normally politically active and went off the radar after Dion’s victory, are expressing interest in coming back into the fold<BR/><BR/>The man has changed considerably and has become much more seasoned and humble. He speaks much more frankly and directly, is less academic in his one on one conversations, and has improved his small talk skills considerably (ie. having a beer and talking about how crappy the Leafs are). The puffin crap is hopefully the last case of his complex mouth<BR/><BR/>I’ve also heard that at this point, he will have a much more veteran filled campaign team, rather then relying on the same younger, arrogant crowd that turned off a lot of other people in 2006. <BR/><BR/>So let’s hope he runs a clean, gaffe free campaign!<BR/><BR/>-ITCIn_The_Centrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05406321842468179869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-55928847102295432392008-11-01T23:56:00.000-04:002008-11-01T23:56:00.000-04:00"He will unleash an air war to destroy Baird and F..."He will unleash an air war to destroy Baird and Flaherty, especially in Ontario."<BR/><BR/>Mushroom, with what funds exactly? You honestly don't think the Liberals would have done that with Dion if they had any MONEY?Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-12154237709154248762008-11-01T23:24:00.000-04:002008-11-01T23:24:00.000-04:00Steve VWhat I'm trying to say is that Liberals hav...Steve V<BR/><BR/>What I'm trying to say is that Liberals have to seize the agenda early and never loose momentum. Rae has baggage. Harper has more. Exploit it. Focus on Harper's baggage. Liberals should not let Rae's past get in the way of electing him as leader. Rae is clearly the best attack dog you've got and he will do it effectively and with class. Harper has lots more baggage than Rae and they elected him leader and now he's PM.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-51726258837368680012008-11-01T22:28:00.000-04:002008-11-01T22:28:00.000-04:00"Was he wrong? Yep."No, Iggy wasn't wrong. He too..."Was he wrong? Yep."<BR/><BR/>No, Iggy wasn't wrong. He took a Blairite position. Iraq can send chemical weapons and attack London, Washington, and Toronto in 45 minutes.<BR/><BR/>What if Iggy and Manley says as Opposition Leader that Harper did not do enough to help protect the rights of Iranian dissidents? Both these people are good for one thing. Goading Harper into taking more hawkish stance on Afghanistan and Iran. They make Jason Kenney look like a fat puffin!!!<BR/><BR/>"The baggage is real, it just is, and we need to incorporate that into our thinking."<BR/><BR/>One thing I know. Bob Rae is not Stephane Dion!!! Do you think that Rae would not respond to attack ads with his own? He will unleash an air war to destroy Baird and Flaherty, especially in Ontario. With Smitherman and Sorbara on his side, there is no way Rae is going to go on a whim and start offering pie-in-the-sky green shifts. <BR/><BR/>I did not support Rae two years ago. Now it is different. Tougher economic times, must be prepared to defeat Harper at the earliest opportunity. Needing to take Jack Layton's votes back.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-90770795881698548412008-11-01T19:20:00.000-04:002008-11-01T19:20:00.000-04:00Put Rae and Harper's Lack of Common Sense Reaction...Put Rae and Harper's Lack of Common Sense Reactionaries side by side and to me Rae comes up looking good, Rae days were good days compared to Harris days. I also agree that while Ignatief was wrong on the Iraq issue, his starting point and end point were different than Bush-Harper. They went for the oil, Iggy went for the people. Of course, that suggests a naivete too, believing that people like Bush could be trusted. But then, unlike me, he actually shares that naivete with a lot of Canadians who took nearly seven years to realize that Bush was nothing more than a gangster. <BR/>I suspect it took Iggy less time.<BR/>I don't know, both men seem considerably more able than Harper.Jerry Pragerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054428435443042500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-50832103499261343002008-11-01T18:56:00.000-04:002008-11-01T18:56:00.000-04:00All the liberals blogging or asking questions on r...All the liberals blogging or asking questions on rae's leadership or possibility of becoming a leader of the liberal party should do one thing...go ask the nurses, teachers, doctors, bus drivers, students etc of ontario..and ask them would they vote for bob rae? The liberal party remains concentrated in toroto and in ontaro and one needs to ask him or herself...will electing Rae improve our chances on in Ontario? i think if you ask ontarions the answer quite clearly is "no" the citizens of ontario their response is brutal they rightly or wrongly have formed an impression of rae and his negatives rival hillary's negatives in he U.S.....plus we need someone with no baggage..if the worst that iggy has is his support for iraq..hmm... i guess that did not impact harper and if dion voted against the iraq war which he did ..hmmm that really did not help dion....almost one million less canadians voted for the liberal party so if we want to move further to the left people should really think about that!!!Francescohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14821665305220953856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-35627496943134979652008-11-01T18:51:00.000-04:002008-11-01T18:51:00.000-04:00manchildDo Liberals need to get over it, or VOTERS...manchild<BR/><BR/>Do Liberals need to get over it, or VOTERS? I really like Rae, so don't get me wrong, but walk down a street one day in a Ontario town, stop people and mention Bob Rae. Get back to me with the results :) The baggage is real, it just is, and we need to incorporate that into our thinking.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-79207961844796795642008-11-01T16:54:00.000-04:002008-11-01T16:54:00.000-04:00Liberals have to get over the Rae "baggage" issue ...Liberals have to get over the Rae "baggage" issue and start taking the offensive. Steven Harper has so much right wing baggage that could be used in soundbite after soundbite. Bob Rae is the perfect one to do it. He's got wit, timing, and is very articulate. I believe he will go for Harper's jugular the very minute he becomes Liberal leader.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-80147670336939787432008-11-01T15:41:00.000-04:002008-11-01T15:41:00.000-04:00I could vote for Dryden.I could vote for Dryden.Militant Dipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09834474561214759967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-85912526309459381542008-11-01T15:01:00.000-04:002008-11-01T15:01:00.000-04:00Is Goodale out of the picture?Is Goodale out of the picture?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-69631777846115341502008-11-01T14:18:00.000-04:002008-11-01T14:18:00.000-04:00Are we discounting Dryden? Yes, the lack of french...Are we discounting Dryden? Yes, the lack of french and long-winded thing still dogs him. However, he's a rock star wherever he goes, passionate, progressive and has leadership qualities/experience. I think he had the best speech at the convention. Just throwing it out there...liberazzihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14798202757576009552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-77865944918360433582008-11-01T14:14:00.000-04:002008-11-01T14:14:00.000-04:00So these are the potential candidates liabilities:...So these are the potential candidates liabilities:<BR/><BR/>Rae - Rae Days<BR/>Iggy - gaffe prone<BR/>Manley - zzzzz, tory lite?<BR/>Kennedy - lack of french, kingmaker, still in debt, capable?<BR/>Leblanc - unknown, risky choice<BR/>Cauchon - another french leader<BR/>Findlay - unknown<BR/>Mcguinty - unknown<BR/>Coderre - shit disturber<BR/><BR/>Who's the safest choice?liberazzihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14798202757576009552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-26743154413562703922008-11-01T13:14:00.000-04:002008-11-01T13:14:00.000-04:00I'm not comfortable with his Iraq position, but le...I'm not comfortable with his Iraq position, but let's keep it in context. Ignatieff's view wasn't akin to Bush, he had actually spent extensive time in Iraq, his view was influenced by what he saw on the humanitarian front, what he saw under the Saddam regime. To lump people together, when they reached similar conclusions, for entirely different reasons, is unfair. Was he wrong? Yep. Does that make him the same as Harper and Bush. Not a chance.<BR/><BR/>As for gaffe's, let's see, but there is no doubt he is more seasoned as a politician, so one can hope.<BR/><BR/>"Fair", a non-existent word in Canadian politics. What has more resonance, an essay explaining the circumstances, or "Rae days". I think we've learned that soundbites win everytime.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-41769791575400271182008-11-01T13:07:00.000-04:002008-11-01T13:07:00.000-04:00I think you're right that the average Canadian mig...I think you're right that the average Canadian might be able to get over his position on Iraq but I don't think the average left leaning Liberal can. One of the reasons I'm willing to vote Liberal instead of NDP is that I believe the day old JC stood up in front of the world and said we will not be going to Iraq may have been the greatest day in Canadian history. Iggy would have been in like Flynn.By contrast the worst day in Canadian history was the day Iggy and 24 other traders stood up and extended, along with the war loving Tories the war in Afghanistan. Iggy is by far the best speaker and easily has the most charisma of any of the leadership candidates.In fact I believe he would have the best chance of winning an election for the Liberals. However somethings are more important than winning elections.Militant Dipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09834474561214759967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-47506867509409026542008-11-01T12:59:00.000-04:002008-11-01T12:59:00.000-04:00I'm with BCL on this. Iggy's problem is th...I'm with BCL on this. Iggy's problem is the gaffe thing. I may have a problem with Iggy & Iraq, but it seems that Iraq is not much of an issue with voters. Go figure.<BR/>I think that Iggy is far more likely to win a GE even with his Iraq past, than Rae could with his bad economic/Premier past. Most people vote with their wallets anyway.<BR/>On most other issues, I’m on the same page as Iggy. He is a compelling speaker in person, and he has a lot of support within the Party.<BR/>So, I'm willing to support him this time, maybe. <BR/><BR/>Any day now I'm sure that he'll trip over a rake, right after slipping on a banana peel, and hitting himself in the face with a coconut cream pie.<BR/> Watch for it!<BR/><BR/>DianaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com