tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post8700896943831234827..comments2023-10-22T09:18:16.885-04:00Comments on Far and Wide: On "Bold" PolicySteve Vhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-58823941278620042052010-02-16T18:58:54.183-05:002010-02-16T18:58:54.183-05:00They are laws in Ontario as well, it isn't ana...They are laws in Ontario as well, it isn't anarchy.<br /><br />I'm not sure how the two issues meet, apart from the most superficial of connections.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-76680781194551455962010-02-16T18:56:50.334-05:002010-02-16T18:56:50.334-05:00No, what is clear is that in the absence of a law ...<i>No, what is clear is that in the absence of a law there is no crime, no police involvement, and no story. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it doesn't happen. But then I'm sure you're perfectly OK with any abortion, any time. Still, just because you can live with it that doesn't make it right.</i><br /><br />Attitudes like this reflect extreme ignorance about the availability of abortion services in much of the country. It is extremely limited in availability in New Brunswick, available only at one centre in Halifax in Nova Scotia (and only up to 12 weeks gestation), and not available at all in PEI. I can't speak to the rest of the country, but that's a population of almost two million for whom abortion services are not easily obtainable.JGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00273619697804064873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-69334487152291303222010-02-16T18:42:32.980-05:002010-02-16T18:42:32.980-05:00Dame
Is there a consensus on any issue? Anyways,...Dame<br /><br />Is there a consensus on any issue? Anyways, I appreciate the dissenting point of view, it actually demonstrates how heated this argument can become. Upon reflection, I withdraw this suggestion, this finding doesn't capture the tea party debate we would surely have.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-65297324107658090052010-02-16T18:34:19.184-05:002010-02-16T18:34:19.184-05:00What I am Missing in the Liberal Policy proposal...What I am Missing in the Liberal Policy proposals is missing action On White Collar Crime generally the abusers of TRUST / not just about money related Crimes/ has To be punished much much Harder . <br /> <br /> This is a sore Point needs attention. <br /><br />the consensus on euthanasia is Not there ...Damehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15548065189088501935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-36033604620299394592010-02-16T16:25:42.894-05:002010-02-16T16:25:42.894-05:00JB left plenty of detail on why the Libs shouldn&#...JB left plenty of detail on why the Libs shouldn't even think of touching this one. Agreed - an excellent post. Especially like this line...<br /><br /><i>You'll do much better with a bold proposal to legalize marijuana and rationalize drug laws.</i><br /><br />Agreed, the Libs should bring back decriminalization of personal amounts, and increased sentences for actual dealers. And for cripes sakes grow a pair and oppose bill C-15 the next time it's tabled. What a colossal waste of tax dollars this would be, and with absolutely no effect on reducing crime. Hell, they even debate this amongst themselves on the flogging bories forum. If the Liberals want to do bold (which I doubt) then this would be a good start.Tof KWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15756310841374198056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-46082326397641859712010-02-16T14:08:13.425-05:002010-02-16T14:08:13.425-05:00Why not just accept reality, instead of this alter...Why not just accept reality, instead of this alternate universe which will never exist? <br /><br />JB<br /><br />Wise words.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-55737915835601533422010-02-16T13:03:19.030-05:002010-02-16T13:03:19.030-05:00In the middle of a fascinating critique of web-cul...In the middle of a fascinating critique of web-culture I found one of the best rationale for disliking polls. Thought I would share it<br /><br />" "The Wisdom of Crowds," he, as well as other theorists, say that if you want a crowd to be wise the key is to reduce the communication flow between the members so they do not influence each other, so they are truly independent and have separate sample points."<br /><br />http://www.alternet.org/media/145683/are_corporations_using_the_internet_to_accelerate_our_cultural%2C_political_and_economic_declineNorthern PoVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04670080478290108536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-87369743893811170272010-02-16T12:55:07.814-05:002010-02-16T12:55:07.814-05:00For bold policy ideas, the liberals don't need...For bold policy ideas, the liberals don't need to look any farther than the 'Young Liberals', young liberals have voted for tons of bold policy ideas both within themselves and at the liberal convention. If liberals officially adopt some of these ideas it would be a huge political win. Ideas like legalizing prostitution and legalizing marijuana. Esp in the case of marijuana polls have shown overwhelming support for it to be legalised, it's a huge policy win. I would be a huge economic boon in this economic situationxyzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04671231028003735277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-982705107495531932010-02-16T10:00:06.082-05:002010-02-16T10:00:06.082-05:00CanNurse:
I respect your POV & that you have m...CanNurse:<br />I respect your POV & that you have more experience with the issue than I do however; I do not take this issue lightly, nor is it simplistic. My opinion is based participating in the end of life with loved ones. <br />Frankly, dismissing an opinion one disagrees with as "simplistic" undermines one's own POV. <br />For what it's worth I think JimBobby has it right.JimmEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03703715618040666970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-78802101881246840782010-02-16T09:01:59.383-05:002010-02-16T09:01:59.383-05:00I ain't a Liberal but I have voted Liberal in ...I ain't a Liberal but I have voted Liberal in the past and would consider doing so in the future, depending on the strategic benefit.<br /><br />I'm not sure I would call 67% "overwhelming." One in three are opposed and that most likely crosses party lines. The 33% opposed include would-be Liberal voters. You could not hope to have them continue voting LPC if they are morally opposed to euthanasia.<br /><br />Contentious does not equal bold. Just as I think Ignatieff put his foot in it by raising the abortion issue, I think it would be a colossal mistake for the Grits to campaign on this issue.<br /><br />It could be an issue for parliamentary debate and consideration but all-in-all, I think it will cost its supporters more votes than it will get them. <br /><br />We have an aging population. We baby boomers are moving into the ranks of the retirees. As we do, health problems invariably crop up and the idea of euthanasia becomes more reality than abstract notion. I've heard many of my aged relatives and friends declare in their younger years that they'd rather die than suffer. Yet, when they are diagnosed with a terminal illness, they seek out whatever treatment is available.<br /><br />The disabled community would mount a massive campaign against any form of euthanasia. Persons with disabilities (PWDs) have successfully fought for equality and accessibility at many levels. Euthanasia is seen by many PWDs as a slippery slope thing. Comatose individuals will not be able to register their wishes, one way or the other. Recent research is revealing that comatose patients may be much more aware of their surroundings and situation than was previous believed. Ditto for severely disabled, communication-challenged PWDs.<br /><br />This is a losing issue and WADR, it is a powder keg. It's far too complex for the sound bite, sloganeering that a successful campaign requires. I suspect it would be a lot easier for the 1/3 opposed to win over some of the 2/3 in favour than vice versa. We would rather err on the side of caution. Those opposed have their heels dug in. Those in favour are susceptible to opposing arguments when they are talking about taking life or death decisions into their own hands.<br /><br />Hot potato. Drop it. You'll do much better with a bold proposal to legalize marijuana and rationalize drug laws. Baby boomers are pot smokers, too. ;-)JimBobbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04603665575714484326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-92165063487695507382010-02-16T08:25:26.557-05:002010-02-16T08:25:26.557-05:00CanNurse - my mother was a nurse and I remember he...CanNurse - my mother was a nurse and I remember her coming home sometimes saying we treat animals better than we treat people when she's had a patient going through hell.<br /><br />I don't know if I'm ready a policy about this yet. My parents had instructions about no heroics - no machines and meds to keep them alive. When they died, they were made comfortable but nothing was done to force them to hang on longer and longer.<br /><br />Rat: so easy to look at the world as black and white isn't it? Don't have to think. <br /><br />As I said my mother was a nurse. I remember when I was a kid and patients (young woman had died) - she was told by doctors that if she had another child (she already had 5) she wouldn't survive the pregnancy. Well, the priest told her it was God's will that she have more children and she again got pregnant. Well, she died and the "baby died" and left a young man alone to bring up his 5 children. It stands out in my mind because my mom and some other nurses collected clothing and toys, etc. to help the father out.<br /><br />You seen Rat - life isn't simple.RuralSandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09552973218865121867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-49011948612471654992010-02-16T08:05:58.297-05:002010-02-16T08:05:58.297-05:00An issue that should be addressed. I would like t...An issue that should be addressed. I would like to have the choice to end my life if I want to without having to get someone who loves me to commit a crime on my behalf. I had someone I loved dearly beg for death - he knew that he had was terminal. Most of us have enough compassion to recognize that it is more compassionate to end a pet’s life than let it suffer for no purpose. And don’t give me that crap about a soul or humans being something more sacred. Even if one believe’s that, why does that mean we have to extend our suffering? And our laws cannot, must not, be based on religious beliefs.<br /><br />However, having said that, I don’t think the Libs or any party would do well politically introducing this issue right now. The nenadercons would just go on a massive scare campaign, confuse people, talk about death panels as someone mentioned.<br /><br />We need a healthier Parliament to put this one up for debate, not only so that it can get anywhere with a reasoned approach, but because of the details to prevent abuse that such a Bill would demand. <br /><br />Good on you for taking this one on, Steve V.900ft Jesushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01882830831096870992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-14668873382741884832010-02-16T08:03:43.083-05:002010-02-16T08:03:43.083-05:00Maybe something you don't run on, but somethin...Maybe something you don't run on, but something you consider once in power. A hidden agenda if you will ;)Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-50571231043286499662010-02-16T01:36:07.563-05:002010-02-16T01:36:07.563-05:00Steve
As much as I agree with you in principle, I...Steve<br /><br />As much as I agree with you in principle, I cannot see this being a winning proposition for the LPC.<br /><br />Fact is doctors commit euthanasian all the time, and almost anyone who has ever loved someone who is in great pain and is dying will tell you they are grateful for that.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-91515481368241634692010-02-16T01:33:29.449-05:002010-02-16T01:33:29.449-05:00"Just because we don't read about it in t..."Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it doesn't happen. But then I'm sure you're perfectly OK with any abortion, any time."<br /><br />And I am sure you worship satan.<br /><br />Now that we have the baseless character smears out of the way, how about some evidence that "it" "happens".<br /><br />What do you mean by "it", and how do you know it happens?Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-10066800661043693782010-02-15T23:59:10.047-05:002010-02-15T23:59:10.047-05:00I love this post because it opens up the issue to ...I love this post because it opens up the issue to general debate, which is what needs to happen, imo. I absolutely support Choice in the issue of euthanasia, & am with you on that. However, I don't think it would fly right now in an election in Canada's present climate of right-wing and fundamentalist back-lash & bushian republicanism. But I do think, particularly as the Baby Boomers age, we will have this conversation & I desperately hope that it will be without religious institutions ordering their members to follow this or that path. <br />Btw, I have to respectfully and strongly disagree with JimmE. I am a nurse who has seen patients put through months & months of TORTUROUS AGONY when there is absolutely not even the faintest hope for any recovery or of their living. I have had patients beg me for Death to end their unrelenting anguish while they are terminally ill. You have no idea. Your view is very simplistic.CanNursehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07333091091775203831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-66517016712835120472010-02-15T21:52:26.730-05:002010-02-15T21:52:26.730-05:00"I think it is clear that no law is necessary...<i>"I think it is clear that no law is necessary."</i><br /><br />No, what is clear is that in the absence of a law there is no crime, no police involvement, and no story. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it doesn't happen. But then I'm sure you're perfectly OK with any abortion, any time. Still, just because you can live with it that doesn't make it right.The Rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00762317244980526077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-65236394147992377942010-02-15T21:47:09.653-05:002010-02-15T21:47:09.653-05:00Steve,
At this point it is all sophistry, in the c...Steve,<br />At this point it is all sophistry, in the context of an election all the nuts will fall from the trees.<br />I don't want to be your boss.(I got trouble being my own boss.) <br />But I also don't want overworked civil servants handing out draino to depressed 19 of 91 year olds.<br />Dude,<br />this dog won't hunt.JimmEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03703715618040666970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-81515869923548880452010-02-15T21:40:04.147-05:002010-02-15T21:40:04.147-05:00sorry, sorry, sorry!
They captured this policy on ...sorry, sorry, sorry!<br />They captured this policy on Video!<br />See it here:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpIKjKjB7UUJimmEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03703715618040666970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-6395697489599567982010-02-15T21:39:12.989-05:002010-02-15T21:39:12.989-05:00If you want to posit it as though great swaths opp...If you want to posit it as though great swaths opposed, how do you explain this entirely one sided result (which isn't the first btw)? And, would those be the same bishops going nuts over Iggy's recent abortion comments?<br /><br />Anyways, I find it entirely disappointing that people are so closed and dogmatic, that they react with threats. You're not the boss of me Jimme, you don't have any right to IMPOSE your view onto my choice. My body, my decision.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-22115504753276025332010-02-15T21:31:12.423-05:002010-02-15T21:31:12.423-05:00So without the juvenile emotional reactions perhap...So without the juvenile emotional reactions perhaps we can look your proposal like adults. Forget for a moment LONG TIME Liberals like me will work against this policy, <br />What is the upside of this proposal?<br /><br />Sorry, I'm waiting, <br />anyone?<br />anyone?<br /><br />Oh, two life long Dippers decide to vote Liberal.<br /><br />And the downside? Well, what about the conference of Catholic Bishops having a letter read the Sunday before an election urging their members to vote against a party that advocates this policy? Or Muslim & Sikh clerics preaching against this policy? Conservative Jews & Protestants sustaining a campaign against this policy. <br />So let's just say that the two Dippers makes this a wash, what is the up side to the party going through a fight that makes the Muldoon era look like a jamboree?<br /><br />In the past you've argued 50% or 90% support in Alberta does not glean one more seats. Pissing off a significant pool of one's potential supporters looks to me like the opposite of that premis, and some stuff.<br /><br />Flip me the bird if you like, but, respectfully, I think this is vote and seat<br />SUICIDE. <br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSnLU9nyFSAJimmEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03703715618040666970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-73457103349418723392010-02-15T21:08:42.667-05:002010-02-15T21:08:42.667-05:00Josh
I don't suggest support just to be bold....Josh<br /><br />I don't suggest support just to be bold. I support it on moral and philosophical grounds. What I'm saying is that this policy, crafted properly, isn't necessarily risky. I will concede that having a calm discussion might be optimistic. For instance, I learned tonight that a free thinking individual can murder themselves. Hysterics.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-39137234324088949582010-02-15T20:55:19.582-05:002010-02-15T20:55:19.582-05:00I think this is grossly premature and wrongheaded....I think this is grossly premature and wrongheaded. I do NOT support legalization of euthanasia in general - if it were to occur, it would be only under the most stringent of conditions. As it stands, it is far more appropriate to ensure that terminal patients and their families sign advance directives indicating the extent of resuscitation desired, i.e. whether "heroic measures" should be employed. Further federal support of palliative care programs is a far more pressing need, to say nothing of home care, or investment in long-term care facilities. This is a bad path to take for the sake of something "bold".JGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00273619697804064873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-85981707730761285562010-02-15T19:04:07.807-05:002010-02-15T19:04:07.807-05:00"When the Supreme Court struck down our abort..."When the Supreme Court struck down our abortion law did anyone suspect that we would have no law at all?"<br /><br />I think it is clear that no law is necessary.<br /><br />You might want to try to find a better example.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-25708736826671435282010-02-15T18:42:37.454-05:002010-02-15T18:42:37.454-05:00Fair enough, this is hardly the domain of calm rea...Fair enough, this is hardly the domain of calm reason. It will be interesting to watch the debate in Quebec.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.com