tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post2765126196516680926..comments2023-10-22T09:18:16.885-04:00Comments on Far and Wide: Critical Choice For The NDPSteve Vhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-21566762052567842412011-09-08T12:08:08.152-04:002011-09-08T12:08:08.152-04:00What Peter and Steve have in common here is they b...What Peter and Steve have in common here is they both recognize the NDP's hypocrisy and self-righteousness. That's not a conspiracy, as much as just stating the obvious.<br /><br />Not to say the Conservative and Liberal bloggers don't have their share of both, but the more thoughtful ones recognize it and offer critical analysis against the party line every once and a while. Hell, it's a big reason why I like Steve's blog, no one can say he's a Liberal lapdog. <br /><br />But the Dipper bloggers & their supportive commentators? <br /><br />Forgetaboutit!Tof KWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15756310841374198056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-16129752844596125702011-09-06T20:50:40.245-04:002011-09-06T20:50:40.245-04:00Uh, so mr. Steve V, you're saying you're i...<i>Uh, so mr. Steve V, you're saying you're in fact co-ordinating with Peter to be in denial?</i><br /><br />Not everything's a conspiracy. Of course the first rule of Fight Club, though is not to talk about Fight Club. ;)sharonapple88https://www.blogger.com/profile/11149226422042041129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-80219585031368639472011-09-06T20:31:53.750-04:002011-09-06T20:31:53.750-04:00I think unions can play a role, but they shouldn&#...<i>I think unions can play a role, but they shouldn't have an artifical quota.</i><br /><br />Me too. <br /><br />I suspect though that the outrage within the NDP about this has more about concerns about a titled playing field than anything else. If Pat Martin had Topp's links to unions, I don't think he'd be taking that particular stand on union votes. Topp, no surprise, seems to favour keeping the union votes, while Mulcair and Martin do not.sharonapple88https://www.blogger.com/profile/11149226422042041129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-44828365236784515232011-09-06T19:43:39.804-04:002011-09-06T19:43:39.804-04:00No co-ordination, Plg. Steve is far too savvy to s...No co-ordination, Plg. Steve is far too savvy to succumb to the seductive blandishments of a con and my fearless leader, Sevie H., tells me Libs are bad, bad, bad (You won't tell him I've been here, will you?). We have nothing in common, except perhaps a fondness for taking digs at you. :-)<br /><br />Hey, I do understand the Dippers are on a roll and it is natural you want to keep internal personal and policy fights from slowing things down, but as Talleyrand once said, <i>jamais trop de zèle.</i> What you say about Dipper success is also true of the HarperCons, and you are going to have to persuade quite a few voters to give you the extra 30-40 seats you will need, absent a merger, and even with that I wouldn't bet the mortgage quite yet. Maybe you can hold Quebec and maybe even you can do so without losses in the ROC, but then what? You have northern Ontario and some of the crunchy left coast, but otheriwse you are a party of large urban cores. The Cons pretty much have the suburbs, small cities/towns and rural Canada. Their demographic is growing and yours is not. So, what policies are going to attract them to you? I can see the Libs cutting into that support, but so far not you, so where's the beef? Surely you don't plan to form the government by just telling everyone how you are all pure in thought and deed? Vote nice over nasty?<br /><br />Full disclosure, I have another agenda. After five years of hearing you guys talk about little more than how scary and outrageous Alberta cowboys, shock jocks, Blogging Tories, libertarian fruitloops, the federal Cabinet, fundies and certain pundits and academics are, and how the Canadian public will never put up with the Cons, and how the Cons are both stupid <i>and</i> evil, and how you who have always hated Harper must affirm every day in every way you hate him even more than you thought you did (it sounds like you are all saying your rosaries), I can say with some confidence that you (pl.) are becoming become really, really boring! Where is the cut and thrust of policy debate? Since you started to smell power, you've become a little anal.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15836910211382887430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-34447984474976098642011-09-06T16:27:58.817-04:002011-09-06T16:27:58.817-04:00sharon
I think unions can play a role, but they s...sharon<br /><br />I think unions can play a role, but they shouldn't have an artifical quota.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-6576991921198252092011-09-06T16:23:26.608-04:002011-09-06T16:23:26.608-04:00Uh, so mr. Steve V, you're saying you're i...Uh, so mr. Steve V, you're saying you're in fact co-ordinating with Peter to be in denial?Purple library guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01930984683714519212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-37245195421894927412011-09-06T15:50:49.683-04:002011-09-06T15:50:49.683-04:00I wonder if Pat Martin's call for a one-member...I wonder if Pat Martin's call for a one-member-one-vote for the leadership race of Brian Topp possibly jumping in the race. Topp has strong links to unions (like Layton did), and therefore he has a big advantage in this race. <br /><br /><i>Which makes it all the more urgent that the interests of working people be represented, but whether unions are a viable vehicle for that right now is less sure than it used to be.</i><br /><br />It's hard to think of some substitute for a union in this regard.sharonapple88https://www.blogger.com/profile/11149226422042041129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-86301932310527579182011-09-06T15:10:37.023-04:002011-09-06T15:10:37.023-04:00"On the other hand, Peter and Steve both soun..."On the other hand, Peter and Steve both sound vaguely in denial"<br /><br />I think it's cute that people don't realize there is co-ordination.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-68554105909601422932011-09-06T14:51:35.528-04:002011-09-06T14:51:35.528-04:00On the other hand, Peter and Steve both sound vagu...On the other hand, Peter and Steve both sound vaguely in denial. The NDP lately would seem to have been doing some fairly effective strategic thinking, if you measure by improving their results every election for the past, what, four?<br />Whereas the Liberals, um, haven't. So I'm not sure it's the NDP-oriented bloggers who should be jumping on the party leadership just now, mmm?Purple library guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01930984683714519212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-13109678549321138602011-09-06T14:48:30.103-04:002011-09-06T14:48:30.103-04:00Peter has a point. In a way, the problem is preci...Peter has a point. In a way, the problem is precisely that at issue is not Big Labour. Labour long ago stopped being Big due to the very successful assault on private sector unions, with the result that labour doesn't directly represent that many Canadian citizens any more.<br /><br />Which makes it all the more urgent that the interests of working people be represented, but whether unions are a viable vehicle for that right now is less sure than it used to be.Purple library guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01930984683714519212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-54192058951727381752011-09-06T13:28:10.030-04:002011-09-06T13:28:10.030-04:00So, it isn't just me. It's like they'...So, it isn't just me. It's like they've become so addicted to minority government, coalition talk, yada, yada, not to mention rending their garments over the latest Con outrage, that they can't get off that train and somehow think an election could come at any time, at which hour the righteous will arise and throw the Morlocks out. At least the Libs seem to undertstand they have to do some hard thinking trying to figure out why the Morlocks got in in the first place.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15836910211382887430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-13571587264574382332011-09-06T12:15:36.024-04:002011-09-06T12:15:36.024-04:00Slightly OT, Steve, do you have the impression tha...Slightly OT, Steve, do you have the impression that the Dippers and their blogging supporters have become tongue-tied about both the leadership and their policies?<br /><br />I honestly can't recall the last time I've read an NDP blog that has shown any critical analysis of anything to do with the party, policies, decisions. You do the math :)Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-44068730348403430652011-09-06T10:23:05.766-04:002011-09-06T10:23:05.766-04:00Yes, and if they keep the quota, they are going to...Yes, and if they keep the quota, they are going to have another problem. As much as its defenders will try to plant the image of heroic miners and factory workers exploited by greedy robber barons in the public mind, it will be fairly easy to reveal this as primarily a special, privileged role for <a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/stephen-gordon/what-does-shift-in-union-membership-mean-for-canada/article2153746/" rel="nofollow">teachers and civil servants</a>, not exactly the most needy and beloved groups these days.<br /><br />Slightly OT, Steve, do you have the impression that the Dippers and their blogging supporters have become tongue-tied about both the leadership and their policies? I realize they've been on an emotional roller coaster of late, but you are the only progressive blogger I can find so far to raise this, even though it is all over the media. It's almost as if they've bought into this fantasy that victory is theirs for the taking in 2015 if they just keep telling Harper horror stories and don't say anything about why they would do better.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15836910211382887430noreply@blogger.com