tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post4875058277162985968..comments2023-10-22T09:18:16.885-04:00Comments on Far and Wide: Power Over PrinciplesSteve Vhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-72421512142303869472010-12-22T19:08:37.115-05:002010-12-22T19:08:37.115-05:00Glenn certainly points out a dilemma for Harper. I...Glenn certainly points out a dilemma for Harper. It was easy for him to introduce his token bits and pieces of senate reform in the senate, where he knew they would never be passed. Now that he has a majority in the senate they should pass without a problem.<br /><br />So who wants to bet he no longer tries to introduce that legislation in the Senate, but in the House instead.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-34252073966630219052010-12-22T10:25:12.818-05:002010-12-22T10:25:12.818-05:00Glenn, you want meaningful Senate reform? I know I...Glenn, you want meaningful Senate reform? I know I do. Well then the Reformatories should stop with these bullshit publicity stunts and begin First Ministers conferences immediately. Because the only way to get an elected Senate is to re-open the constitution.<br /><br />Mulroney had the conviction and the guts to do what he thought was right and attempt constitutional changes on his watch, and that did include Senate changes (few remember that now). Does Harper? No, thought not.Tof KWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15756310841374198056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-31602336376425209772010-12-22T09:21:30.831-05:002010-12-22T09:21:30.831-05:00"Power over principles, eh? -
http://www.the..."Power over principles, eh? -<br /><br />http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/tories-fail-in-attempt-to-fast-track-senate-reform/article1804626/<br /><br />Liberals whine pathetically about the Tories appointing Senators, but yet are responsible for killing any attempt at Senate reform like an elected Senate or term limits.<br /><br />Liberal hypocrisy again. Wow.....<i>such</i> a shocker.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08211564399166981795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-76857406929238486792010-12-21T18:30:26.978-05:002010-12-21T18:30:26.978-05:00And, so much for the constitution:
"
Under S...And, so much for the constitution:<br /><br />"<br />Under Section 39 of the Constitution Act, a senator is not capable of being elected or sitting or voting as a member of the House of Commons.<br /><br /><br /><br />Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/12/21/que-larry-smith-senate.html#ixzz18nAJLfnQ"Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-32337715359736644632010-12-21T18:12:49.603-05:002010-12-21T18:12:49.603-05:00I agree with you, a majority would see a more ideo...I agree with you, a majority would see a more ideological underpinning.<br /><br />Appreciate the intelligent commentary, thanks.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-69884786278091567092010-12-21T18:02:35.055-05:002010-12-21T18:02:35.055-05:00@Steve V:
I grant your counterpoint.
I just thin...@Steve V:<br /><br />I grant your counterpoint.<br /><br />I just think that Harper is biding his time before unleashing his real agenda - which, if he were to get a majority, would make the old reform platform seem tame. Harper belongs right beside Cheney in terms of agenda and modus operandi.<br /><br />Harper does seem to relish, at a very personal level, being in power and having power. No argument from me that there is a good deal of personal with that principle for Harper.jmburtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13356505931743309334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-73887911092049286532010-12-21T15:55:34.161-05:002010-12-21T15:55:34.161-05:00Exactly Peter!!! ;)Exactly Peter!!! ;)Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-9898916054266642662010-12-21T15:52:58.507-05:002010-12-21T15:52:58.507-05:00Wow, if you change "Harper" for "Ch...Wow, if you change "Harper" for "Chretien" it would be equally valid...Peter Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17926068138460241073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-44447515827704769592010-12-21T15:52:52.047-05:002010-12-21T15:52:52.047-05:00I take your point, but that's like saying the ...I take your point, but that's like saying the ends justify the means. People can dimish all they want, but the facts hand show a record diametrically opposed to what the old Reform movement stood for. A complete and utter betrayal.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-39913613868488033852010-12-21T15:49:57.754-05:002010-12-21T15:49:57.754-05:00I don't know if I agree that Harper puts power...I don't know if I agree that Harper puts power before principle. Harper has a clear agenda - one based on some fairly clear rock-ribbed paleo-conservative principles. He wants to implement that agenda. He knows he can't implement his agenda without power.<br /><br />Therefore, he is prepared to put aside agenda items until they are truly doable. Is that lack of principle, or is it a very clear understanding of the mechanics of implementing that agenda which is based on those principles.<br /><br />In the NDP there were consistent arguments between the Saskatchewan and Manitoba parties (the ones that actually gained and kept power for long enough to create lasting change) and the rest of Canada.<br /><br />The Saskatchewan NDP was consistently attacked by others in the national party structure for lacking principles and convictions (which may in fact NOW be true [c.f. current direction and leadership]).<br /><br />Even St. Tommy Douglas was attacked for being not principled enough, yet both Saskatchewan and Manitoba have a far better record of achieving lasting social change than the more <i><b>pure</b></i> sections of the party and other provinces that have only had sporadic NDP governments.<br /><br />I make the same argument with regard to Barack Obama - what he lacks in purity he has addressed in deliverables - and has incremented social change one (or more) achievable ratchet(s).<br /><br />(to avoid a bunch of arguing on the topic, for a good list of Obama accomplishments look at Andrew Sullivan's post "<a href="http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/12/meep-meep.html" rel="nofollow">Meep Meep</a>")jmburtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13356505931743309334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-2568540725964190392010-12-21T11:52:15.238-05:002010-12-21T11:52:15.238-05:00and for the record, Jad, Ignatieff was elected by ...and for the record, Jad, Ignatieff was elected by the people of his riding. Then acclaimed by the Liberal party's elected caucus.Jerry Pragerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054428435443042500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-52300836262384704372010-12-21T11:07:30.799-05:002010-12-21T11:07:30.799-05:00Oh poor, clueless jad ...that's the best you c...Oh poor, clueless jad ...that's the best you can do? You're down to using a 5-year old's 'but Jamie hit me first' excuses?<br /><br />The Liberals never said they would do anything different with the senate, that was Harper and the Reformatory's thing. And they've proven over and over again that those high-falutin' promises were all just bullshit.<br /><br />The CPofC is a party with no principles other than to maintain power ...in other words you're dirty Liberals.Tof KWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15756310841374198056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-40929957510117562952010-12-21T10:54:07.645-05:002010-12-21T10:54:07.645-05:00Can you spell beyond "lame"?Can you spell beyond "lame"?Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-91930870853994333332010-12-21T10:39:52.278-05:002010-12-21T10:39:52.278-05:00Once again, Harper will sidestep democratic choice...<i>Once again, Harper will sidestep democratic choice and put an unelected person into the inner sanctum of our elected system</i><br /><br />Can you spell F-O-N-S-E-C-A ????<br /><br />Or L-A-M-O-U-R-E-U-X ????<br /><br />Or how about I-G-N-A-T-I-E-F-F ????jadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01291193100262435148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-66545901049908998492010-12-21T09:46:25.846-05:002010-12-21T09:46:25.846-05:00There's nothing prima facie wrong with appoint...There's nothing <i>prima facie</i> wrong with appointing someone to the senate so their stature will increase and they'll win an election; that's something that's allowed for, and isn't unheard of historically, in our system. <br /><br />We may all <i>prefer</i> governments treat it as somewhere for the best Canadians to come together, the direction Chretien moved at the end, but it's not necessarily wrong. <br /><br />So, I would personally stay focused; the problem is that the PM clearly said he'd never do this, and now he is, for all the reasons he always decried. It's the broken promise, without explanation, that makes him a liar, and it's trampling all over it without even trying to hew close to it that makes him a cad.Jessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06441711770772926643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-37084229994378356722010-12-21T09:28:30.463-05:002010-12-21T09:28:30.463-05:00What's the worst insult you give a Conservativ...What's the worst insult you give a Conservative?<br /><br />Call them a dirty Liberal.<br /><br />Hurts even more when it's true.Tof KWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15756310841374198056noreply@blogger.com