tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post6720040300695480936..comments2023-10-22T09:18:16.885-04:00Comments on Far and Wide: Dion The Hawk?Steve Vhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-86269523419481624972008-01-17T21:34:00.000-05:002008-01-17T21:34:00.000-05:00Dion does have room to insert both feet in his mou...Dion does have room to insert both feet in his mouth eh pals. Imagine how Iggy must feel. Two days on the steppes and they've solved the riddle. Quaint and pathetic politicing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-51656007648840286022008-01-17T14:54:00.000-05:002008-01-17T14:54:00.000-05:00There is a BIG difference between invading Pakista...There is a BIG difference between invading Pakistan, and protecting the Afghan border to stop infiltration.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-35995590527313703572008-01-17T11:58:00.000-05:002008-01-17T11:58:00.000-05:00Dion's statement seems to be in line with Obama’s ...Dion's statement seems to be in line with Obama’s foreign policy position, a position that seems to have been adopted by Clinton as well as many stalwarts in the Democratic Party.<BR/><BR/>A lot of the comments here suggest that people are falsely thinking that this position suggests military intervention should happen immediately and pre-emptively. <BR/><BR/>This is not the case. The fact of the matter is, there is every bit of indication that Pakistan may be headed towards failed state status. There is no scarier prospect in the world then a failed nuclear state. If this were to happen, you would bet most western powers would intervene, along with India.<BR/><BR/>Of course, the best outcome would be for Pakistan to tread these dangerous waters with soft power support from the U.S and regional countries. However, the world must be prepared to intervene should the Pakistani government or army lose the ability to contain the situation. <BR/><BR/>I applaud Dion's comments and this will go a long in bringing back pragmatic centrists back to the party. <BR/><BR/><BR/>-ITCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-65519055224308380162008-01-17T09:24:00.000-05:002008-01-17T09:24:00.000-05:00Did Dion actually say "attack"? I don't think so ...Did Dion actually say "attack"? I don't think so - reality is that if they (NATO) don't work with Pakistan, Afghanistan is doomed to failure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-3548059941849447032008-01-17T00:16:00.000-05:002008-01-17T00:16:00.000-05:00Toying with the idea of military incursions into P...Toying with the idea of military incursions into Pakistan's tribal areas is childish at best. The Pakistan army is considerably more powerful than any force NATO can muster and yet they get mauled routinely when they go in to what is their own homeland. Forget al-Qaeda and the Taliban. How do you expect the fiercely independent Pashtun and Baloch tribesmen to respond to the arrival of a force of Infidels? Look, we're talking about the lives of a lot of fine young Canadian soldiers being squandered for no good end. Tell me the last invader who succeeded in these regions. Put the fantasy nonsense aside for a minute and show me the model we need to adopt. If you can't find one, ask Stephane Dion what he'd suggest.The Mound of Soundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09023839743772372922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-66169991685799053092008-01-16T23:05:00.000-05:002008-01-16T23:05:00.000-05:00anonAnd that explains why the Taliban in Afghanist...anon<BR/><BR/>And that explains why the Taliban in Afghanistan have no appetite for negotiations.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-35276082290722351022008-01-16T23:02:00.000-05:002008-01-16T23:02:00.000-05:00I've discussed this issue at length in five parts,...I've discussed this issue at length in five parts, the first two found here: http://thescottross.blogspot.com/2007_07_17_archive.html. <BR/><BR/>Briefly due to British Imperialism, the largest tribal group, which is united by their code of life, the Pashtunwali, was divided by the Durand line in the late 19th Century in an attempt to divide and conquer. This line is the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Currently it still divides the tribe of over 40 million Pashtuns. <BR/><BR/>Now all Pashtuns are not Taliban, but all Taliban are Pashtuns, and due to the Pashtunwali, all Pashtuns are at some degree sympathetic to Taliban fighters. <BR/>Now as Currently we are limited to Afghanistan, and thus only a fraction of the population of where the Taliban draws its support, our mission in Afghanistan can never succeed. This conclusion is built on the premise of Pakistan not being able to seal it's border.thescottross.blogspot.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08632822060893291800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-72033713684250492972008-01-16T22:55:00.000-05:002008-01-16T22:55:00.000-05:00Steve, Dion suggested that we 'intervene' in Paki...Steve, Dion suggested that we 'intervene' in Pakistan.<BR/>As in step in and take matters into our own hands, where Afghans and the Pakistan govt won't.<BR/>Un-invited invaders Steve.wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03589410224972050999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-80337860637828931852008-01-16T22:39:00.000-05:002008-01-16T22:39:00.000-05:00The end game is dealing with the Taliban because t...The end game is dealing with the Taliban because they cannot be defeated on the field.<BR/><BR/>The only variable is whether President Karzai keeps his job and his head.<BR/><BR/>That is why he has been in discussions with the less bloody minded elements of the Taliban for months.<BR/><BR/>Once that deal is done, if it ever is, the Taliban in Pakistan will become much less of a problem.ottlibhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12695135535019042279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-39485056905147522172008-01-16T22:32:00.000-05:002008-01-16T22:32:00.000-05:00wilsonMacKay lies, with his abandoning Afghanistan...wilson<BR/><BR/>MacKay lies, with his abandoning Afghanistan nonsense. Can we have an honest debate, or are we forever reconciled to the schoolyard. The debate in Canada has largely been embarrassing up until this point, and this government has set the tone with its bombastic, neo-nationalist, divisive rhetoric.<BR/><BR/>Everybody knows that the endgame for Afghanistan is dealing with the tribal areas in Pakistan.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-70785469636342722992008-01-16T22:27:00.000-05:002008-01-16T22:27:00.000-05:00from the National Post article you posted:'...Defe...from the National Post article you posted:<BR/><BR/>'...Defence Minister Peter MacKay told Canwest News Service Dion's comments were off base.<BR/><BR/>"Mr. Dion can't be serious to suggest NATO "intervene," in another country while simultaneously saying Canada should abandon its United Nations-mandated NATO mission in Afghanistan," he said in an e-mail.<BR/><BR/>"He has to explain to Canadians why he wants an "intervention" but wants to turn his back on Afghanistan, which has asked and continues to ask for Canada's help. It's inane."<BR/><BR/>Why would Dion want to start a war in Pakisan? <BR/>an Iggy idea?<BR/>Jack is gonna have some fun with this one!wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03589410224972050999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-74973637966132234092008-01-16T22:08:00.000-05:002008-01-16T22:08:00.000-05:00"what dion implied is not a lessened combat role b..."what dion implied is not a lessened combat role but a bigger one altogether"<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure I follow that logic.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-61106838899852332892008-01-16T21:49:00.000-05:002008-01-16T21:49:00.000-05:00sorry steve,no amount of spin can save dion hereto...sorry steve,<BR/><BR/>no amount of spin can save dion here<BR/><BR/>tories gave you guys 2 scandals in one day and dion put his foot in his mouth.<BR/><BR/>while it is true to say that the porous border doesnt help the situation, what dion implied is not a lessened combat role but a bigger one altogether, which hasnt been the Liberal position at all...<BR/><BR/>i still think you guys should hammer hard on guergis, it hould be an easy resignation...just start calling her heraldoAnthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04018582124108708061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-13667310313844720482008-01-16T21:06:00.000-05:002008-01-16T21:06:00.000-05:00Raphael,Gates a neo-con? Don't link him with Rums...Raphael,<BR/><BR/>Gates a neo-con? Don't link him with Rumsfeld.<BR/><BR/>A CIA analyst, sees the world through a more realistic and pragmatic view. Like Condi, should be faulted for not seeing the collapse of the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia, the latter leading to the most violent war crimes in Europe in recent times.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-34522823935316734852008-01-16T20:56:00.000-05:002008-01-16T20:56:00.000-05:00mushroom, no. We need a parliamentary consensus, a...mushroom, no. We need a parliamentary consensus, and the Manley report is useful.<BR/><BR/>And Gates is nothing more than a gibbering neo-con who will soon be removed from office after the 08 elections.Raphael Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14635417096024081504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-43067965931320275232008-01-16T20:55:00.000-05:002008-01-16T20:55:00.000-05:00Would you suggest that Harper junk the Manley repo...Would you suggest that Harper junk the Manley report and call for a surge of Canadian troops into Pakistan?<BR/><BR/>After Gates suggest that NATO soldiers are not up to the job?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-85866635672818802852008-01-16T20:20:00.000-05:002008-01-16T20:20:00.000-05:00Dion wants us out of Afghanistan and into Pakistan...<A HREF="http://unambig.blogspot.com/2008/01/dion-wants-us-out-of-afghanistan-and.html" REL="nofollow">Dion wants us out of Afghanistan and into Pakistan?</A>Raphael Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14635417096024081504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-84567891505446912072008-01-16T19:47:00.000-05:002008-01-16T19:47:00.000-05:00I'm not going to criticize for demonstrating some ...I'm not going to criticize for demonstrating some pragmatism. <BR/><BR/>I'll check it out, feel free to post a link (I'm lazy).Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-75490127648577949572008-01-16T19:37:00.000-05:002008-01-16T19:37:00.000-05:00Interesting, Steve. It is, as you say, logical poi...Interesting, Steve. It is, as you say, logical points made by Dion. Although I would disagree his overall position is consistent, it would be nice to think that compromise is on the table if NATO could see their way into a restructuring of the mission, and forays into Pakistan.<BR/><BR/>I've weighed in on this issue at my own blog if you're interested.Raphael Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14635417096024081504noreply@blogger.com