tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post9193449767158892158..comments2023-10-22T09:18:16.885-04:00Comments on Far and Wide: Amateur Hour?Steve Vhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-22017413619889480062007-10-16T20:15:00.000-04:002007-10-16T20:15:00.000-04:00Did Coderre catch something in Afghan? Both Pablo ...Did Coderre catch something in Afghan? Both Pablo and Coderre have some explaining to do. I hope then do not have leadership aspirations...liberazzihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14798202757576009552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-29191788164547153582007-10-16T20:11:00.000-04:002007-10-16T20:11:00.000-04:00Jim, the Libs have problems in Que, but your party...Jim, the Libs have problems in Que, but your party is still stuck at 34%. At this point the only party with anything to smile about right now is the Greens.liberazzihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14798202757576009552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-61841916180028771942007-10-16T19:31:00.000-04:002007-10-16T19:31:00.000-04:00Celine Hervieux-Payette seems like a good choice e...Celine Hervieux-Payette seems like a good choice even if it was bungled. The key to winning at least a minority victory is to stop obsessing over Que, focus on winning more seats in Ont, BC and the Atlantic. It appears as if the Quebec wing is out to sabatoge Dion.<BR/><BR/>On the speech,<BR/><BR/>5 priorities again? They couldnt even finish the last five? <BR/><BR/>I think we can all agree on improving Actic soveignty.<BR/><BR/>Absolutely, do not agree with staying in Afghan till 11.<BR/><BR/>Law and order, do we have a major crime problem in this country?<BR/><BR/>Reform the Senate, will never happen<BR/><BR/>Another GST cut, ridcules<BR/><BR/>Finally, Quebec will seperate by by default at this rate.liberazzihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14798202757576009552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-15741132909989171192007-10-16T19:12:00.000-04:002007-10-16T19:12:00.000-04:00gayleI appreciate your comments, it would be borin...gayle<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your comments, it would be boring to agree all the time.<BR/><BR/>dm<BR/><BR/>I thought the same thing, quite strange that the one and two turn down Dion, although Coderre apparently had "personal reasons". The real kicker is Pablo, because he had the night to think about it, and somebody should have told him his "duty".<BR/><BR/>jim<BR/><BR/>"Nice to know I am memorable to you."<BR/><BR/>I forgot about you already.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-48911694770728142242007-10-16T19:07:00.000-04:002007-10-16T19:07:00.000-04:00Gayle said... Jim - I should have known it was you...Gayle said... <BR/>Jim - I should have known it was you. Thanks for identifying yourself. It is no small courtesy to do so.<BR/><BR/>Logging in all the time is a pain, but for you, anything.<BR/><BR/>Nice to know I am memorable to you.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, good luck in fixing the sorrows of your broken partyJimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14984716150769477615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-82599827587088343722007-10-16T19:01:00.000-04:002007-10-16T19:01:00.000-04:00dm - that is exactly what I am talking about.At on...dm - that is exactly what I am talking about.<BR/><BR/>At one point during the leadership race I was feeling comfortable with the idea of Ignatieff as leader, even though he would not have been my choice, however with all that has happened since Dion won I think having Iggy as leader would be suicide.<BR/><BR/>Whether or not it is his fault, his people are causing problems. They have to shut up or get lost.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-35127048101119757542007-10-16T18:57:00.000-04:002007-10-16T18:57:00.000-04:00Steve - you must know I like you, even when I disa...Steve - you must know I like you, even when I disagree (which you also must admit is rare...). :)<BR/><BR/>I like coming here because the debate is intelligent and mature. Why, I can even vent my frustrations and only have to deal with one conservative troll who thinks the debate is about something it isn't.<BR/><BR/>And yes - I was speaking to discipline. And I guess my comments towards this particular post were more in line with attacking the lack of party discipline rather than Dion for the timing. I am not sure how he can be held responsible for that (I have unfounded suspicions that he may have been lead to believe Coderre would accept - these are generally the type of things people feel out first, but that is simply pure speculation).<BR/><BR/>Jim - I should have known it was you. Thanks for identifying yourself. It is no small courtesy to do so.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-23958065287677716932007-10-16T18:53:00.000-04:002007-10-16T18:53:00.000-04:00Man I hope Ignatieff starts wearing some of the ab...Man I hope Ignatieff starts wearing some of the absolute clusterf*** that the LPCQ has become. <BR/><BR/>If this story is true, Dion reaches out to Iggy's number one Quebec MP, is turned down and ten minutes later, the story is in the media. <BR/><BR/>Just to repeat: Dion reaches out, is turned down and gets screwed publicly on a somewhat important day. <BR/><BR/>And then he reaches out to PRod -- Iggy's second major Quebec MP -- and is turned down again. And it is also in the media within the hour.<BR/><BR/>Michael Ignatieff is either behind this (which I dont believe) or his folks are absolutely out of control and are destroying the Liberal party that he obviously still hopes to lead. <BR/><BR/>I wish a reporter would put a microphone in front of him and ask him (a) why did Coderre/PRod turn down the job; and (b) why did they decide it was in the best interest of the party and the Leader to go to the media about it.<BR/><BR/>Ignatieff's Quebec folks, combined with Chretien's book, Kinsella's response and the likely Martin retort still to come are making me really wonder why I am a Liberal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-68589574044250688812007-10-16T18:48:00.000-04:002007-10-16T18:48:00.000-04:00Is this better Gayle, no longer anon. I though my ...Is this better Gayle, no longer anon. I though my analysis was pretty good, thanks.<BR/><BR/>Silly little lefty.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14984716150769477615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-55420595201712354372007-10-16T18:43:00.002-04:002007-10-16T18:43:00.002-04:00"Steve and I were talking as mature adults"Speak f..."Steve and I were talking as mature adults"<BR/><BR/>Speak for yourself ;)Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-2225925847849842872007-10-16T18:43:00.001-04:002007-10-16T18:43:00.001-04:00" Just do not complain about 2 networks going on a..." Just do not complain about 2 networks going on about the liberals when all this news of infighting comes from the liberals, and it is only news because other liberals are wringing their hands over it."<BR/><BR/>If you're speaking to discipline, then I completely agree.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-41033192375729067002007-10-16T18:43:00.000-04:002007-10-16T18:43:00.000-04:00Silly little anon - thanks for all the great analy...Silly little anon - thanks for all the great analysis. Wow - what deep insight.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, Steve and I were talking as mature adults. Perhaps you can join the discussion when you can do the same.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-66539457980921408102007-10-16T18:37:00.000-04:002007-10-16T18:37:00.000-04:00Gayle said... I simply wonder why people have such...Gayle said... <BR/>I simply wonder why people have such high expectations. His every move is under a microscope.<BR/><BR/><BR/>People have high expectations because leads Canada's so-called "natural governing party" and he wants to be Prime Minister. Is it that tough to figure out? Sheesh.<BR/><BR/>Gayle said...<BR/>Too many liberals thought they would sweep back into a majority once the leadership contest was over. High expectations create great scrutiny.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Well, the payback for such Liberal arrogance is a bitch this time, ain't it.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Gayle said...<BR/>The media would not pick up on every little detail if liberals were not wringing their hands over every little detail. It is tiresome.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Sure they would pick up on every little detail, and it has nothing to do with hand wringing. There are serious divisions and infighting going on that threaten to destroy the Liberal party...that make for pretty interesting news. And yep, I bet it is tiresome following and funding a bunch of backbiting losers.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Gayle said... <BR/>Do we see the conservatives collapsing every time Harper does something dumb? No - because they shrug it off. Why don't the liberals do the same?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Simple, because we are not the same. Our party is united and under the firm leadership of one man. Besides, as conservatives, we have dealt with political adversity long than you Libs, so we are better at it.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Gayle said... <BR/>I am afraid of what Harper will do to our country. I desperately want to keep him out of a majority.<BR/><BR/><BR/>I seem to hear this alot from the left. Just what is it exactly you think he will do in 4 years?<BR/><BR/>Gayle said...<BR/>I just wonder why the party I have chosen to support, a party that gladly takes my money, is so willing to sell us out to him.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Simple again, because they are broke and don't have a prayer of forming the government in the forseeable future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-74880608952980518422007-10-16T18:27:00.000-04:002007-10-16T18:27:00.000-04:00steve - I never said censor your posts. Post whate...steve - I never said censor your posts. Post whatever you want. Just do not complain about 2 networks going on about the liberals when all this news of infighting comes from the liberals, and it is only news because other liberals are wringing their hands over it.<BR/><BR/>Dion has to clean house in Quebec. No question. This is where most of the undermining has taken place and I say he should go for it.<BR/><BR/>CC does raise a good point - I hope those undermining Dion will hear it.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-13166871157566287522007-10-16T18:14:00.000-04:002007-10-16T18:14:00.000-04:00"Late Tuesday, he was set to announce that Senator..."Late Tuesday, he was set to announce that Senator Celine Hervieux-Payette will take the job. <BR/><BR/>Hervieux-Payette is a veteran Liberal with an extensive network and experience as an organizer. She once served as national campaign co-chair for Jean Chretien."<BR/><BR/>"Adding to the perception of disarray, the party's director general in Quebec, Serge Marcil, tendered his resignation Tuesday. Robert Fragasso, president of the Quebec wing, said Marcil will stay on the job until the end of the week but has lined up a new job in the private sector."<BR/><BR/>Gayle<BR/><BR/>I understand what you are saying, but I'm not censoring my posts, or things I want to discuss, in the name of party line. These aren't minor things, the Liberal Party, for whatever reason is in an unprecedented period of disarray (I welcome another historical example to trump this circumstance in Quebec). I appreciate your frustration, but appreciate mine at having to listen to the last hour of Liberal bashing, on two networks, when we are supposed to be focused on the throne speech. As it relates to fault, there is plenty to go around, and the leader is not immune, that's just the reality.<BR/><BR/><BR/>I think Curiousity Cat raises a good point.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-22985922294256064782007-10-16T17:18:00.000-04:002007-10-16T17:18:00.000-04:00I know you don't KNB. I simply wonder why people h...I know you don't KNB. I simply wonder why people have such high expectations. His every move is under a microscope. I wonder if anyone can point to anyone who took over a role such as this and who had no problems, internal dissension and other such matters.<BR/><BR/>Too many liberals thought they would sweep back into a majority once the leadership contest was over. High expectations create great scrutiny.<BR/><BR/>The media would not pick up on every little detail if liberals were not wringing their hands over every little detail. It is tiresome.<BR/><BR/>Do we see the conservatives collapsing every time Harper does something dumb? No - because they shrug it off. Why don't the liberals do the same?<BR/><BR/>I am afraid of what Harper will do to our country. I desperately want to keep him out of a majority. I just wonder why the party I have chosen to support, a party that gladly takes my money, is so willing to sell us out to him.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-62819544197634059042007-10-16T17:03:00.000-04:002007-10-16T17:03:00.000-04:00The Liberal Party needs to stabilize things fast (...The Liberal Party needs to stabilize things fast (assuming no election call this week). If the Liberals were in power, they would have a PM plus a Cabinet, to discuss matters and assist in decision-making.<BR/><BR/>Seems to me that we should be adopting a similar structure even though we are not in power (yet). Have Dion appoint his shadow cabinet and then make sure that we have collective responsibility for all key decisions (including input from all senior cabinet ministers on the selection of provincial leaders).<BR/><BR/>In unity there is strength - Dion and his senior Liberals should be working as a team. This will display strength, and ability to organize, rather than having all matters seemingly being done by Dion and landing on his plate.<BR/><BR/>Time to get serious about projecting strength, determination, professionalism and willingness to fight...CuriosityCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12485015529428901518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-84103340996022090972007-10-16T17:02:00.000-04:002007-10-16T17:02:00.000-04:00Gayle, I don't think the problem is Dion, to the c...Gayle, I don't think the problem is Dion, to the contrary, if given a chance I think he'll do well to make any lingering knives disappear.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291881352139075405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-73288834696633468332007-10-16T17:00:00.000-04:002007-10-16T17:00:00.000-04:00Agreed poor timing coming from a guy who is provin...Agreed poor timing coming from a guy who is proving more and more to be a poor leader.<BR/><BR/>To think that Chretien singles him out as a standout. The only question I have was whether that was before or after he accused Martin of having blood on his hands for Afghanistan. Talk about the kiss of death.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-84072189700005670202007-10-16T16:59:00.000-04:002007-10-16T16:59:00.000-04:00Please recall that this is same man who willingly ...Please recall that this is same man who willingly offered to quit as he didn't get paid anything more for the role. Good riddance!<BR/>If true, Pablo is a good choice. He's not a Coderre pitbull and is respected with his recent enviro bill.<BR/>The Liberals are suffering in rural francophone Quebec. That is where the rebuilding must start.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-44146504611643478592007-10-16T16:48:00.000-04:002007-10-16T16:48:00.000-04:00you are speaking to the gravity, I'm speaking to t...<I>you are speaking to the gravity, I'm speaking to the optics</I><BR/><BR/>Me, I'm confused over the choice - Pablo Rodriguez? I'd get all Sam Peckinpah on him, not offer him a job.<BR/><BR/>Well, keep your enemies closer and all that, I guess. But I don't respect or like that guy for a second.<BR/><BR/>Oh well. But I agree fully with Steve. Poor timing, to say the least.Jacques Beau Verthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16450947780950412676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-67027840989434818682007-10-16T16:44:00.000-04:002007-10-16T16:44:00.000-04:00"Gail- you seem indifferent to all these fumblings..."Gail- you seem indifferent to all these fumblings, or at least take it all in stride. At what point do you start worrying about the general perception that Dion can't cut it. <BR/>Whether you like it or not, there is a crisis in leadership."<BR/><BR/>I will tell you what I think. I do not think the fault is with Dion. He won the leadership in a democratic contest. He was chosen to lead the party. There are elements of the liberals who do not like this - people who wanted their man to win and were disappointed when he did not.<BR/><BR/>These elements consistently work to undermine Dion in every way. This is not about Dion and his leadership - it is about the agenda of others. Caving in to those agendas by blaming Dion only serves to weaken your party.<BR/><BR/>If Dion goes, and you have another leadership race without first dealing with these fundamental rifts in the party you are going to go right back to the same infighting and backstabbing that plagued your party for the past decade or so. <BR/><BR/>This incident about Dion wanting to replace his Quebec lieutenant is routine. What makes it a "crisis" to some people is the fact that Coderre did not accept. Do you even know why he did not accept? Do you even care? <BR/><BR/>Obviously not - because god forbid we even consider there may be any other reason than Dion is a poor leader.<BR/><BR/>Way to stand behind your man people. Way to support your party.<BR/><BR/>I am sick and tired of giving my hard earned money to a party that is bent on serving the interests of certain individuals to the detriment of the country.<BR/><BR/>I would have donated no matter who won the leadership race (yes, even if Ignatieff won), but now I assure you I am donating only because of Dion. If your party wants to collapse under the weight of its own massive egos, then we are in for many, many years of Harper.<BR/><BR/>All I can say is thanks a lot.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-25601527181866446662007-10-16T16:43:00.000-04:002007-10-16T16:43:00.000-04:00"I'm not making this a "leadership" question, but ..."I'm not making this a "leadership" question, but more about stopping the unforced errors."<BR/><BR/>Ooops, sorry, I guess as an optimist I'll agree with:<BR/><BR/>"attention must be paid to Quebec and this may all turn out for the best."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-13268182641254596372007-10-16T16:34:00.001-04:002007-10-16T16:34:00.001-04:00"At what point do you start worrying about the gen..."At what point do you start worrying about the general perception that Dion can't cut it."<BR/><BR/>Reminds me off the U.S. presidential election 04. I didn't buy into any of the "Kerry is not a leader/Bush is a leader" crap until he lost, after I predicted Kerry was going to win with 60%. That was a bit of a heart breaker for me.<BR/><BR/>I guess until Dion losses (and lets hope he doesn't) I won't believe it. But that's me. I'm a bit of an optimist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-43214863431571713202007-10-16T16:34:00.000-04:002007-10-16T16:34:00.000-04:00"btw, could someone pls tell Jack to stick a sock ..."btw, could someone pls tell Jack to stick a sock in it? Good grief, he's walking from mike to mike, chest all puffed out, daring Dion."<BR/><BR/>In full plume today is he?Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.com