tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post923918291646944840..comments2023-10-22T09:18:16.885-04:00Comments on Far and Wide: Support Free Vote On Gun RegistrySteve Vhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-80799962922672782382009-11-06T02:01:14.828-05:002009-11-06T02:01:14.828-05:00Mike,
It's legitimate unless it's unconst...Mike,<br /><br />It's legitimate unless it's unconstitutional. That's how democracy works, even when we don't like it.<br /><br />Gay marriage, fortunately, is, in my opinion, constitutionally required.Jessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06441711770772926643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-66846858217794783942009-11-05T23:33:25.509-05:002009-11-05T23:33:25.509-05:00"Dude, that's called democracy. Everythin..."Dude, that's called democracy. Everything is under constant threat."<br /><br />So then it's legitimate in your view if gays gain and lose the right to marry based off the results off the latest election?<br />What about the right to adopt or teach in classrooms? (they are banned from both in some U.S. states so it's not inconceivable some so-Con Tories might not propose the same here).<br /><br />There is a simple fact that you ignore here: I guarantee that a huge majority of voting Canadians have no idea as to the personal views of the candidate when they vote. What they know at least a little better is what their party stands for. Candidates get elected on party coat tails. If that weren't true we'd see more independents win and Tom Wappel would have lost in Scarborough years ago for his ultra Conservative views (his successor is on the opposite end of the spectrum and got a pretty much identical share of the vote).<br /><br />Therefore candidates who owe their jobs to parties should have to adhere to the platform the party ran on. On issues where the platform is silent, sure have a free vote, but the Wheat Board, Gay rights, the gun registry our issues where our party position is extremely clear. These MPs would not have their jobs were it not for that party, that's just a simple fact. Were there open nominations coming up for those 8 Liberals I suspect at least some would lose their nominations. But there won't because the party again protects them. Some gratitude shown in return....<br /><br />I know free votes sound nice, what value is a platform if it can just be flaunted whenever an MP feels like it?Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15481948382858467120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-85921264420067157252009-11-05T22:55:32.961-05:002009-11-05T22:55:32.961-05:00"Since then the Libs lost, and the Tories gai..."Since then the Libs lost, and the Tories gained, more than enough seats to reverse that margin."<br /><br />Dude, that's called democracy. Everything is under constant threat.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-12567367026320383102009-11-05T22:27:24.139-05:002009-11-05T22:27:24.139-05:00Steve same sex passed in the last Parliament by ab...Steve same sex passed in the last Parliament by about 20 votes if I recall. Since then the Libs lost, and the Tories gained, more than enough seats to reverse that margin. If the next private member's bill is a repeal of same sex marriage would you call for a free vote? <br />What a bill that bans gays from adopting children or teaching in schools?<br />Or a revival of the Ken Epp abortion bill (which would have passed in the last Parliament without a whip being used against Liberals in favour)?<br />More than likely an upcoming private member's bill will be abolishment of the wheat board. Not a big issue for you I'm sure but one that affects the livelihood of many people and where again we have an official position to support it that was in our platform. Free vote there too? <br />Is there anywhere where you'd draw the line?Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15481948382858467120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-72192517617598297252009-11-05T13:39:30.660-05:002009-11-05T13:39:30.660-05:00Mike
Same sex passed without the support of all L...Mike<br /><br />Same sex passed without the support of all Liberal MP's. Not sure why the fear mongering is relevant now.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-58630443981242103922009-11-05T04:17:26.848-05:002009-11-05T04:17:26.848-05:00Steve were there a free vote to repeal same-sex ma...Steve were there a free vote to repeal same-sex marriage in THIS Parliament what do you expect the result would be?<br /><br />Would you be ok with that, if that's the next Con private member's bill to come forward? <br /><br />This is a dangerous game to allow free votes with there are immense policy consequences that go against what our PLATFORM said in the last election. <br /><br />And let's remember that far more people vote by party than by candidate.<br /><br />To give you an example Tom Wappel was one of the most MOST Conservative Liberals in caucus. I bet he would have voted to repeal the gun registry. Yet he represented an urban safe Liberal riding! Michelle Simson was his replacement and she voted against Bill C-391. This idea that the MP magically reflects the wishes of their constituents in a free vote is a bit of overgeneralization.<br /><br />Let's remember <b>if the gun registry is repealed it's NEVER coming back, that's a fact. </b><br /><br />Our official party position is in support of the registry and that it saves lives. To allow the reigstry to die without any fight whatsoever flies in the face of that position. What other official party positions could be abandoned in the name of the "tradition of free votes on private member's bills"?<br /><br />It's a slippery slope Steve so be careful what you wish for....Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15481948382858467120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-7744070808714047392009-11-05T03:14:51.421-05:002009-11-05T03:14:51.421-05:00One more point -- someone should be calling the CO...One more point -- someone should be calling the CONs on their lack of consistency here; they dug deep into their pockets to advertise in opposition rural ridings to 'scare' that MP into supporting this bill. Why didn't they do the same in opposition-held urban and suburban ridings? Is it because they find no support there for this? Or is it because their message only plays well in the sticks? Eliminating/loosening restrictions on guns seems to fly in the face of their law-and-order meme... But the next time someone is murdered in a rural community (where there doesn't seem to be too much gang violence, it should be mentioned) will the media ask the government the tough questions? I admit this is a decent channel-changer for the CONs, but I just see that there could be a bounce-back if the opposition chooses to go there.rockfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02835472375196889875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-76988952468233980692009-11-05T01:23:48.308-05:002009-11-05T01:23:48.308-05:00Not sure why they 'killed' it...they were ...Not sure why they 'killed' it...they were doing nothing to support it so it was effectively dead in any case. This seems more of a publicity stunt than anything.<br />I am pleased to see free votes as it allows us to see how well our MP represents us, or how they feel our riding is speaking. If we disagree, we can discuss it...its positive politics.weeblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03591531825570909900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-60322848016221480422009-11-05T00:25:28.907-05:002009-11-05T00:25:28.907-05:00I'm reluctantly in agreement with Steve; but t...I'm reluctantly in agreement with Steve; but there is an immense caveat.<br />Rural opposition MPs were not only following the wishes of a large portion of their voters, but were also under seige by the CONs campaign to smear them as 'anti-rights' and 'anti-rural' representatives. It was a smear and a threat that worked, obviously. We know how forceful, whether used loudly or by stealth, the gun lobby and gun groups can be.<br />Now turn that on its head. Should not Liberals (and NdPers and Blocees) use that same tactic and deluge urban ridings where CONs have a seat, and hit at this diverging message -- a vast number of women, social and church groups, etc., have all had their voices nullified. Despite the opinion of the Police Chiefs of Canada, despite Canada's falling murder rate, despite the fact that since the legislation there has been few Montreal massacres in Canada, while the US continues to see those tragedies repeated, the CON MPs chose to ignore their constituents' wishes. They chose to support the gun lobby.<br />I think turn-about is fair play.rockfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02835472375196889875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-90633436797492552142009-11-05T00:11:48.794-05:002009-11-05T00:11:48.794-05:00PS,
File this under WTF...
1/4 of the EFFING DIP...PS,<br /><br />File this under WTF...<br /><br />1/4 of the EFFING DIPPER CAUCUS voted with the Knuckel draggers??!!!<br /><br />So much for the Progressive Alternative or what ever other lie Do-nuth'n Jack pulls out of his ARSE.<br /><br />So as long as I have this straight, Jack kills the Martin government & with it Social Housing, Kyoto, Kelona Accord, Universal Daycare, Urban Transit, & Funding for Cities. Not only now does he support the present PM - but lets half his caucus show up to kill the gun registry. Have I got it about right?<br /><br />So how does this guy look himself in the mirror every morning (cause you know that takes up most of his time before he gets to the office)??<br /><br />SHEESH!!<br /><br />Reform-A-Tories sleep well!<br /><br />Dippers, get an effing job!JimmEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03703715618040666970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-61457488580319044192009-11-04T23:18:05.621-05:002009-11-04T23:18:05.621-05:00Steve,
Thanks for posting the names of the EVIL D...Steve,<br /><br />Thanks for posting the names of the EVIL DOERS. I am canceling my Victory Fund contributions, & will not be working for a Liberal in the next federal election for the fist time since 1968. Rather, I shall be working to have all of these so-called Liberals & DIPPERS defeated in the next election. I don't give a rat's rear who wins in these ridings, as long as these fellow travelers find new employment. <br />Keep up the good work. <br /><br />JSJimmEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03703715618040666970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-60199263249063856372009-11-04T20:21:45.747-05:002009-11-04T20:21:45.747-05:00Libs who voted to kill registry:
Andrews (NF), Ba...Libs who voted to kill registry:<br /><br />Andrews (NF), Bagnell (YK) D'Amours (NB) Simms (NF) Russell (NF) Rota (ON) Martin (BC) Easter (PE)<br /><br />NDP:<br /><br />Allen (ON) Angus (ON) Ashton (MB) Bevington (NW) Cullen (BC) Thibeault (ON) Stoffer (NS) Rafferty (ON) Maloway (MB) Hyer (ON) Hughes (ON) Gravelle (ON)Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-38445655789187985442009-11-04T15:23:08.657-05:002009-11-04T15:23:08.657-05:00Any measure should have the support of a majority ...Any measure should have the support of a majority of MP's. If Canada moves to the right on day, then we will have to confront these issues, because the populous, through their wants, will pick representation which reflects this ideology.<br /><br />In the current climate, nobody is going to introduce the death penalty or repeal abortion, because people don't support it. As for same sex marriage, didn't we see individual MP's expressing their own viewpoint? How did that turn out?Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-38743379116623795402009-11-04T13:47:44.899-05:002009-11-04T13:47:44.899-05:00Steve where do you draw the line and why?
This bi...Steve where do you draw the line and why?<br /><br />This bill has real consequences for policemen on the front line and for all those who people who have been victims of crimes at the hands of long guns. Policemen will tell you first hand stories of how this has saved lives. And if costs almost nothing anymore to maintain (not to mention the money wasted on building it up should it be abolished). <br /><br />If we whip other votes why not this?<br />Would you say the same thing if the next free vote were the re-imposing the death penalty or abolishing same-sex marriage? How about a private member's bill on abortion?Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15481948382858467120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-43629650154159328062009-11-04T13:32:12.281-05:002009-11-04T13:32:12.281-05:00If this were a true free vote, I may be more incli...If this were a true free vote, I may be more inclined to your conclusion. This is not a free vote (see the quote I noted earlier). So we find ourselves in a mugs game, of being the saps who accept back-door Reform Party policy in the name of a so-called free vote. Free vote on this bill is really a canard and a waste of time & effort, this should be a whipped vote.<br /><br />The result, if this passes is we shall see more so-called Private Members bills that bring more Reform Party policy forward.JimmEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03703715618040666970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-31630819139760340822009-11-04T10:46:10.158-05:002009-11-04T10:46:10.158-05:00A good article on the subject of political deferen...A good article on the subject of political deference from Harpers, June 2008.<br /><br />http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/06/0082039 <br /><br />It reminds me of a time I called John Baird's office and said "Mr. Baird" to which I was quickly and sternly corrected by a chirpy staffer. <br /><br />"That's MINISTER Baird."<br /><br />Oh. So sorry. I should have called him "Mr. Douchebag" like I usually do.CuzBenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14169446711811834115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-46318726740575710052009-11-04T10:45:26.229-05:002009-11-04T10:45:26.229-05:00That's fine, but you're really not saying ...That's fine, but you're really not saying anything with your rebuttal.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-81483171239447077902009-11-04T10:44:22.349-05:002009-11-04T10:44:22.349-05:00My point is that I disagree with your point.My point is that I disagree with your point.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06509182679650412982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-42060784535729080082009-11-04T10:44:01.316-05:002009-11-04T10:44:01.316-05:00" My local MP as a person and a leader means ..." My local MP as a person and a leader means more to me than party affiliation."<br /><br />Mark, if there were more free votes, that actually fleshed out individual MP's for voters, then elections would have less to do with leadership, more to do with the riding, more to the qualities of the party representative. As it stands now, most people just see the color and vote accordingly, the face an afterthought.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-42157604527311456322009-11-04T10:40:01.440-05:002009-11-04T10:40:01.440-05:00What's your point? The whole thrust of my arg...What's your point? The whole thrust of my argument, there are to many whipped votes, you just gave examples. So what?Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-12080450490671603042009-11-04T10:38:40.145-05:002009-11-04T10:38:40.145-05:00Which btw Layton did say when it came to same sex ...Which btw Layton did say when it came to same sex marriage, which was another free vote.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06509182679650412982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-83313968721832708542009-11-04T10:36:31.254-05:002009-11-04T10:36:31.254-05:00No Jack Layton should say the caucus is going to v...No Jack Layton should say the caucus is going to vote for the registry because it is our party's position.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06509182679650412982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-65478618149359134682009-11-04T10:30:38.708-05:002009-11-04T10:30:38.708-05:00Should Nathan Cullen say, "well I was going t...Should Nathan Cullen say, "well I was going to vote against the registry, but because the Cons are playing silly games, running ads, I'm going to support it". That makes no sense to me.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-63699609106467177612009-11-04T10:29:30.076-05:002009-11-04T10:29:30.076-05:00Why should the opposition takes its cues, based on...Why should the opposition takes its cues, based on what the Conservatives are doing?Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20358187.post-65325406912500492882009-11-04T10:27:44.306-05:002009-11-04T10:27:44.306-05:00How is this a free vote when the CPC has been adve...How is this a free vote when the CPC has been advertising this very bill in swing ridings? That alone should have the party whip the vote. This is another game the CPC is being let off with.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17404234601709022496noreply@blogger.com