I don't think disagreeing with the party makes one a bad Liberal. In fact diversity of opinion within our party makes us stronger as it allows to openly debate the issues and come to the best conclusion. I believe the party is one that is united in diversity.
Exactly For example, there's nothing wrong with me taking runs at Steve for questioning the SES poll's reliability when he takes the Angus-Reid online poll as the Gospel. It makes for entertaining reading! ;)
What matters is we share the same basic values. Disagreeing on how we achieve them is fine. A party is united by the type of Canada it wants to create, not by what method it chooses to get there as there is more than one way of getting to a certain point.
And never mind the Tories I am sure have fractures amongst their members. Libertarians and social conservatives probably have bigger differences between each other than any group within the Liberals does.
"Liberals are just messy, open, as opposed to stifled and repressed. "
That is true at the moment, but historically that has not been the case. In fact until the rise of the Reform Party, the Progressive Conservatives had even more divisions and they were very open. Whether it be the death penalty, bilingualism, Charter of Rights and Freedoms, abortion, the great flag debate, the breaks in the ranks were well known.
The Reform party only never showed those breaks much because they were largely like the NDP on the left, made up of ideologues as opposed to pragmatists.
Having a slight disagreement, is healthy, much better than a bunch of sheep. However the online poll that Scott was talking about is not reliable, whereas SES is one of the most reliable.
True enough, the PC's seemed to mirror the current Liberal tension. I think fear and paranoia plays a big role in the current conservative incarnation.
"However the online poll that Scott was talking about is not reliable, whereas SES is one of the most reliable."
Hijacked another thread Scott :) Actually, if you look at the last two provincial elections, the most predictive poll was the "not reliable" online poll, the same methodology used by the British government. SES is my favorite poll, I just think this one has an odor to it, which is verified by the pollsters own admission about absolute certainty. Anyways...
Hmmm...interesting that a study showed that the best leaders in the US (Lincoln, Roosevelt, etc)purposely had people of opposing opinions around them. To me, this is a sign of security for a leader.
I think Layton better watch out with this Mulcair - watch your back Jack.
Amen to that, good for you. I certainly agree that you're no more blindly partisan than say, Tory Dr. Roy, who was quoted directly below you. Kudos! :)
11 comments:
I don't think disagreeing with the party makes one a bad Liberal. In fact diversity of opinion within our party makes us stronger as it allows to openly debate the issues and come to the best conclusion. I believe the party is one that is united in diversity.
People love to point to the "divisions" and "fractures", but I think its healthy to have differing viewpoints, it makes for better conclusions.
Exactly For example, there's nothing wrong with me taking runs at Steve for questioning the SES poll's reliability when he takes the Angus-Reid online poll as the Gospel. It makes for entertaining reading! ;)
What matters is we share the same basic values. Disagreeing on how we achieve them is fine. A party is united by the type of Canada it wants to create, not by what method it chooses to get there as there is more than one way of getting to a certain point.
And never mind the Tories I am sure have fractures amongst their members. Libertarians and social conservatives probably have bigger differences between each other than any group within the Liberals does.
"Gospel?" ;)
"And never mind the Tories I am sure have fractures amongst their members."
Liberals are just messy, open, as opposed to stifled and repressed.
"Liberals are just messy, open, as opposed to stifled and repressed. "
That is true at the moment, but historically that has not been the case. In fact until the rise of the Reform Party, the Progressive Conservatives had even more divisions and they were very open. Whether it be the death penalty, bilingualism, Charter of Rights and Freedoms, abortion, the great flag debate, the breaks in the ranks were well known.
The Reform party only never showed those breaks much because they were largely like the NDP on the left, made up of ideologues as opposed to pragmatists.
Having a slight disagreement, is healthy, much better than a bunch of sheep. However the online poll that Scott was talking about is not reliable, whereas SES is one of the most reliable.
miles
True enough, the PC's seemed to mirror the current Liberal tension. I think fear and paranoia plays a big role in the current conservative incarnation.
"However the online poll that Scott was talking about is not reliable, whereas SES is one of the most reliable."
Hijacked another thread Scott :) Actually, if you look at the last two provincial elections, the most predictive poll was the "not reliable" online poll, the same methodology used by the British government. SES is my favorite poll, I just think this one has an odor to it, which is verified by the pollsters own admission about absolute certainty. Anyways...
Hmmm...interesting that a study showed that the best leaders in the US (Lincoln, Roosevelt, etc)purposely had people of opposing opinions around them. To me, this is a sign of security for a leader.
I think Layton better watch out with this Mulcair - watch your back Jack.
Steve,
Amen to that, good for you. I certainly agree that you're no more blindly partisan than say, Tory Dr. Roy, who was quoted directly below you. Kudos! :)
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