In the battle of the statements this is Dion's to lose. I don't really mind the delay as it gives Mansbridge, Newman, et al the opportunity to critique Harper's weaksauce.
Oh. Oh. Where is the Dion tape? These kind of delays and the fact that there will only be 18 Liberal ministers will be Dion's downfall once he becomes PM.
Dion and folks are going to piss off the networks. They gave up 30 minutes of prime time. Will they go into their Access Hollywood and Jeopardy! It would serve Dion right if they did not. Pathetic.
Anyways, PM Dion
I hope there is a good excuse. I hope it is great. I hope ...
Harper looked thinner and with deep shadows under his eyes. He also sounded like he was trying not to scare small children by using a 'reassuring' voice, ala Mr. Rogers' Neighbourhood, which might explain the 'sweater' comments.
But what he said was nothing new and less. We have stimulus. Really. Honest. Those awful oppositioners didn't even give us a chance to govern. They have no democratic right (and I think right there, that was the grenade comment) His talk about using every 'legal' method to stop it just sounded like dogwhistling.
In a way I can understand Dion avoiding the noisy, live venue if he's trying to concentrate on his English. As it was, he seemed both intense and a bit nervous about his pronunciation, and yes, the focus depth was off, so I wouldn't think there was a lot of professional cinematic framing in this, just a camera andddd...'go'.
He had a lot more specifics than Harper, that's for certain.
Alright, Liberazzi, you gave me my laugh for the night,
I unintentionally mentally read your last phrase as written, "his English well you know" in Dion's voice, I think because I could here him say that type of phrasing. I had to laugh.
I'm going to agree with Duffy, just this one time. The only shame, the tape was late, it was blurry and the shot was WAY too tight. The whole thing reeked of amateurism, and there is NO excuse for that. Pisses me off, cooommee on.
Other than that, on substance, Dion was clearly better.
Jesus Christ. What happened. The Liberals totally fucked up. There was a 25 minute gab after Harper before Dion was put on. And CTV didn't even air it.
Oh look, right behind Gilles Duceppe. A Canadian flag. Imagine that.
I like how M. Duceppe launched right into the falsehood that Harper was looking for specific advice from the other parties by highlighting their effort in November to provide ideas, which Harper rejected after they were commended by his party.
I do find it a little funny how the conservatives always have to correct or go back and add the word "legal" when they talk about holding power by all legal means available.
In my admittedly biased mind, I have to chuckle that if they left that word out, with their now established reputation, people would get a little nervous
I see Harper is still acting exactly like the Straussian he is at heart, no matter how much certain commentators seem to think I am some sort of old fogy when I refer to this. Straussians among other things do not respect the fundamental rules of the democratic structure that they operate in, as shown by Cheney's declaration of the VP's office being a fourth branch of the US government, and here with Harper's total misunderstanding of how a Westminster Parliamentary government structure works and that the power of a sitting government comes from commanding a majority of the elected seats in the Parliament, which in a minority situation can include coalitions such as the Liberal/NDP coalition proposed supported solely on confidence issues for 18 months by the BQ.
The amount of lying and the forgetting that Harper himself triggered this firestorm with his narrow partisan bullying (which he clearly thought the average person wouldn’t care about, and to which he found out the contrary indeed) is exactly why I opposed Harper, his disrespect for our fundamental rules and traditions of governance is inherently dangerous and undermines the power structure this nation has chosen to be governed by. That any minority PM would act so is beyond belief.
The speech itself was something that let my wife and me scratching our heads in confusion, as nothing new was said, and the lies the same stale crap as we have been hearing over the last week now, combined with the fear and smear approach on Quebec, in a manner which is going to do more to help fan the flames of separatism there than any coalition, let alone the reality of what is proposed by Dion/Layton/Duceppe.
I know I have been silent until now, haven't been feeling well, and quite honestly watching Harper act in such a manner against the traditions and precedents of our system literally sickens me because I have such respect and reverence for them (which is why I tend to argue from that perspective so much, it really is important to me personally). Harper either is indifferent or ignorant of the level of understanding a Grade 7 year student has about how a Parliamentary democracy works based upon what he said tonight and for the last week, and that more than anything else shows just how unfit he is for the office he holds.
Fife is an idiot and a Conservative shill so if he is making such a big deal out of the delay he must believe Mr. Harper did nothing to improve his situation tonight.
It wasn't just CTV, CBC was making fun as well. The good news, tomorrow is all about the GG, but my good god, there's no excuse for the delay, nor the grade three production quality.
If only Layton were the PM to be instead of Dion - it would be so much better. He really looks like a PM - Dion just doesn't - but I guess we'll just have to put up with him for four months.
i know no ones reads bourque but he has totally jumped the shark tonight, its outrageous. "Coalition leader Stephane Dion, 25 minutes late, waded in with his thoughts, the book 'HOT AIR' inexplicably propped up on a shelf behind his head"
Hey, what's up with Frank? There's a story in the Guelph Mercury saying that he doesn't support the coalition and thinks Harper should "rescue" the economy.
Why wouldn't they pan it? Are we running for town council in Moosonee, or are we trying to convince people that we can lead. I have to stop talking, because...
Grr! How could the Libs allow this to happen? This is a giant mess. Look, Dion can't get a tape to the networks on time how on earth could he hope to hold this coalition together. And when it did get there it was terrible. AMATURE! Canada is a G8 nation and he sends out a high school quality tape. I’ll not bother to listen to the endless excuses we’ll get…There is no excuse for this incompetence. Every single thing that Adam Radwanski has written about Dion this week was proven true tonight. The story should have been Harper's bizarro address to the nation......but NOOOOOOO, again it will be Dion Not A Leader. You know why, because he's not! And this is why we lost the election...very badly!
I hope the GG grants Harper his time out. Seriously!
I agree completely with what Scotian said upthread (and I sincerely hope you are feeling better soon).
It's unfortunate that Dion's contribution was delayed or that he didn't spend large amounts of taxpayer's money to produce something more professional, but his words were honest and substantive.
Beneath the slow-speaking, Polka Dot door narration, was an undeniable anger in Harper's 4 1/2 minute statement. I felt threatened.
When he said, "Let me be clear, I will use any legal means available...", I felt a shiver. I thought, what does that mean? He doesn't even acknowledge or respect parliamentary rules or constitutional rights.
It sounded like a prelude to drastic action. Then my mind drifted to the War Measures Act.
Harper spent his first turn as leader of a minority government bullying his opposition, especially Dion who was made his personal whipping boy. But his actions over the past many weeks show him to be even more power hungry and dangerous than we have ever seen before.
At this point, I'd say Harper is close to being dragged out of the HoC in a straight jacket. Or even worse, he gets his way and this country is a wash.
Fear of "legal means"? Must be a name for that phobia. I suspect if the "coalition" overplays it's hand, he'll a) prorogue, and b) try to lure a few Libs to cross the floor to save their asses. Stronach may not be available, but Iggy might get pried loose.
Steve - "It wasn't just CTV, CBC was making fun as well. The good news, tomorrow is all about the GG, but my good god, there's no excuse for the delay, nor the grade three production quality."
Agreed. I was super pissed. This is not a game, this is serious. Serious for the Country and serious for the Libs/NDP and BQ. If this coalition falls apart then Harper will basically have a majority as the opposition parties can't afford an election. If this coalition forms the government and this turn out badly then Canadians will punish those parties and hand the Conservatives a majority.
I continue to support the coalition. I felt that Dion was the only person to lead it until the leadership race is over - not any more. I watched this farce with several people who are generally Liberal supporters, but not fans of Dion. This was his chance to reasure them. He couldn't have done worse being both significantly late and amateur recording. Many people have said that Harper should put the country ahead of himself and step down. Time for Dion to put the country first. My hope is that the leadership candidates will do the same thing and install the leadership race front runner as the new party leader immediately.
Good on CTV for showing how Harper is the more divisive on the separtist issue. I thought their coverage tonight was fairly balanced, even Fife toned it down (but was still smug about it).
I feel like tomorrow is christmas! I hope I don't get coal.
Wow! Beijing, that's wild that you caught that, too! It was palpable, it really was and I thought, OMG, he's up to something really, really bad. The G-G cannot prorogue or we will have the military in our streets!
Dion should step down NOW. No more fucking about. He needs to swallow whatever he has left of his pride and go before Parliament resumes. I believe Liberals need to demand this.
118 comments:
I think we know how this is going tonight, so we will fight this again in January.
Only supposed to speak for five minutes.
He's going to announce that he is resigning, or some other bombshell.
I see Canadian flags.
Steaming pile of Conservative doo-doo...
do you think he'll show some humility? i know what a stupid question.
he looks like a creepy bastard
Oh, it's nice Steve.
I wonder if the cat will jump up on the desk, just has that feel.
Wow, he looks desperate.
I know I'm biased, but man he sounds PHONY.
We're good guys. We're working on a plan. We have open doors. I smile. See, I just did it again.
Oops, a turn for the worse. Dark clouds overhead. Evil people want to destroy Canada.
I won't let them. Evil Evil. Fear.
There that sums it up and he's not even finished yet.
"we cannot get into a coalition with the seperatists except when it is convenient for us to do so"
"we will use whatever legal means necessary because we are chicken shit"
That was it?? Just, wow..
TWO DIFFERENT STATEMENTS!!! COMPARE THE ENGLISH TO THE FRENCH!!!!!
"Opposition does not have the democratic right"..
That lie rolls ever so easily off his tongue, doesn't it?
"we want to work with the opposition parties" ahahahahahahahah, he's funny
Pretty weak, nothing new, very SEDATE.
he doesnt use the word seperatist in the french version, like i said chicken shit
Craig Oliver "there wasn't much there".
No kidding.
Blue sweater voice, sez Don Newman..lol..
don newman is saying that we saw the blue sweater steve tonight
sjw,
you beat me to it
The good news, it's safe to say he didn't really help his cause with that dud.
mans bridge (rick mercer), just called harper on another lie about harper's recalling of minority history
dion's tape is delayed
That blows my mind.
Dion's letter to the GG.
Who drugged Harper? Did he have too many sips of something prior to the taping? Bizarre. Yippee!
In the battle of the statements this is Dion's to lose.
I don't really mind the delay as it gives Mansbridge, Newman, et al the opportunity to critique Harper's weaksauce.
It's an opening for Dion, methinks it will be much more heartfelt. Harper was quite flat.
ok dion, dont mess this up
Oh. Oh. Where is the Dion tape? These kind of delays and the fact that there will only be 18 Liberal ministers will be Dion's downfall once he becomes PM.
the CPC is trying to poach liberals in advance of a vote
I hope he isn't buried in a sea of Canadian flags..
shit the cbc is making fun of the delay
yep. It is now taking to long. Fashionably late has turned a bit sour..
Dion and folks are going to piss off the networks. They gave up 30 minutes of prime time. Will they go into their Access Hollywood and Jeopardy! It would serve Dion right if they did not. Pathetic.
Anyways, PM Dion
I hope there is a good excuse. I hope it is great. I hope ...
Great, CBC started in the middle and CTV has not started yet.
Dion is doing a good job.
He is doing a good job. Film quality is blurry. Strange.
He should have just walked out and spoken, would have been fine.
But at least he's addressing the actual events at hand.
Well, CTV has gone to their 7:00 show eTalk and CTV Newsnet is rerunning Harper. Nice. I missed half of it on CBC. Crap.
A wise move to put so much emphasis on what the coalition would do on the economy. Nice.
Harper looked thinner and with deep shadows under his eyes. He also sounded like he was trying not to scare small children by using a 'reassuring' voice, ala Mr. Rogers' Neighbourhood, which might explain the 'sweater' comments.
But what he said was nothing new and less. We have stimulus. Really. Honest. Those awful oppositioners didn't even give us a chance to govern. They have no democratic right (and I think right there, that was the grenade comment) His talk about using every 'legal' method to stop it just sounded like dogwhistling.
clap-clap-clap
good speech, made his point, his english well you know...
Much more genuine, much more substance, nice personal touch at the end.
Thumbs up.
Dion is a decent guy. I want him to be PM. But the reason he lost the election was again evident today.
cbc likes it
In a way I can understand Dion avoiding the noisy, live venue if he's trying to concentrate on his English. As it was, he seemed both intense and a bit nervous about his pronunciation, and yes, the focus depth was off, so I wouldn't think there was a lot of professional cinematic framing in this, just a camera andddd...'go'.
He had a lot more specifics than Harper, that's for certain.
did newsnet show it?
Alright, Liberazzi, you gave me my laugh for the night,
I unintentionally mentally read your last phrase as written, "his English well you know" in Dion's voice, I think because I could here him say that type of phrasing. I had to laugh.
thanks.
I'm going to agree with Duffy, just this one time. The only shame, the tape was late, it was blurry and the shot was WAY too tight. The whole thing reeked of amateurism, and there is NO excuse for that. Pisses me off, cooommee on.
Other than that, on substance, Dion was clearly better.
Jesus Christ. What happened. The Liberals totally fucked up. There was a 25 minute gab after Harper before Dion was put on. And CTV didn't even air it.
"your parliament", "coalitions are normal practice around the world" "part of the westminster system"
now newsnet is not even showing duceppe's speech? what are they doing?
And Duceppe takes the evening.
The networks didn't agree to air Duceppe or Layton, so it's their call.
OMG Duceppe does not have a quebec flag behind him!
Oh look, right behind Gilles Duceppe. A Canadian flag. Imagine that.
I like how M. Duceppe launched right into the falsehood that Harper was looking for specific advice from the other parties by highlighting their effort in November to provide ideas, which Harper rejected after they were commended by his party.
CTV is Faux News in Canada. I wouldn't sweat it too much. There are larger fish to fry.
On Newsnet now.
oh the new talking point is that the coalition speaks with three voices, whatever...
lib
The more air time dispelling Harper, the better.
"More interested in keeping his job, than you keeping your job"
Great line.
layton is making a good argument, but he is a bit stuttery, not smooth
Just announced that the PM will be paying a visit to the GG tomorrow at 9:30 am.
Is it bad that three coalition partners have different voices, as long as they agree on the fundamental issues and agree to work together?
I guess for Conservatives that sounds just horrid, but I think most humans would find it a desirable trait.
They are trying to play on the "it's 3:00 am" angle, but I don't think that will give them much to work with.
I thought it was hilarious he got uninterrupted during his faux outrage act.
Will she decide immediately I wonder, or will she wait a day or two.
I do find it a little funny how the conservatives always have to correct or go back and add the word "legal" when they talk about holding power by all legal means available.
In my admittedly biased mind, I have to chuckle that if they left that word out, with their now established reputation, people would get a little nervous
fife is making a big deal about the delay, come on fife! its not that big a deal
fife is making out that the tape delay will basically bring down the whole coalition. are you kidding me?
I see Harper is still acting exactly like the Straussian he is at heart, no matter how much certain commentators seem to think I am some sort of old fogy when I refer to this. Straussians among other things do not respect the fundamental rules of the democratic structure that they operate in, as shown by Cheney's declaration of the VP's office being a fourth branch of the US government, and here with Harper's total misunderstanding of how a Westminster Parliamentary government structure works and that the power of a sitting government comes from commanding a majority of the elected seats in the Parliament, which in a minority situation can include coalitions such as the Liberal/NDP coalition proposed supported solely on confidence issues for 18 months by the BQ.
The amount of lying and the forgetting that Harper himself triggered this firestorm with his narrow partisan bullying (which he clearly thought the average person wouldn’t care about, and to which he found out the contrary indeed) is exactly why I opposed Harper, his disrespect for our fundamental rules and traditions of governance is inherently dangerous and undermines the power structure this nation has chosen to be governed by. That any minority PM would act so is beyond belief.
The speech itself was something that let my wife and me scratching our heads in confusion, as nothing new was said, and the lies the same stale crap as we have been hearing over the last week now, combined with the fear and smear approach on Quebec, in a manner which is going to do more to help fan the flames of separatism there than any coalition, let alone the reality of what is proposed by Dion/Layton/Duceppe.
I know I have been silent until now, haven't been feeling well, and quite honestly watching Harper act in such a manner against the traditions and precedents of our system literally sickens me because I have such respect and reverence for them (which is why I tend to argue from that perspective so much, it really is important to me personally). Harper either is indifferent or ignorant of the level of understanding a Grade 7 year student has about how a Parliamentary democracy works based upon what he said tonight and for the last week, and that more than anything else shows just how unfit he is for the office he holds.
OMG, check out Bourque, he is not even pretending anymore
Fife is an idiot and a Conservative shill so if he is making such a big deal out of the delay he must believe Mr. Harper did nothing to improve his situation tonight.
lib
It wasn't just CTV, CBC was making fun as well. The good news, tomorrow is all about the GG, but my good god, there's no excuse for the delay, nor the grade three production quality.
I am getting ready to eat dinner . . . think I'll skip the Borque visit
cbc briefly were complaining about the delay while they were waiting, fife made it out to be then end of the coalition
If only Layton were the PM to be instead of Dion - it would be so much better. He really looks like a PM - Dion just doesn't - but I guess we'll just have to put up with him for four months.
I honestly can't remember the last time I visited Bourque.
hmmm, Mans Bridge is panning the Dion video, but panning Harper as well.
i know no ones reads bourque but he has totally jumped the shark tonight, its outrageous. "Coalition leader Stephane Dion, 25 minutes late, waded in with his thoughts, the book 'HOT AIR' inexplicably propped up on a shelf behind his head"
Hey, what's up with Frank? There's a story in the Guelph Mercury saying that he doesn't support the coalition and thinks Harper should "rescue" the economy.
lib
Why wouldn't they pan it? Are we running for town council in Moosonee, or are we trying to convince people that we can lead. I have to stop talking, because...
prentice is making a fool of himself on politics
RT
No idea, but they better get ahead of that one, everyone is looking for cracks.
Grr!
How could the Libs allow this to happen? This is a giant mess.
Look, Dion can't get a tape to the networks on time how on earth could he hope to hold this coalition together. And when it did get there it was terrible. AMATURE!
Canada is a G8 nation and he sends out a high school quality tape.
I’ll not bother to listen to the endless excuses we’ll get…There is no excuse for this incompetence.
Every single thing that Adam Radwanski has written about Dion this week was proven true tonight.
The story should have been Harper's bizarro address to the nation......but NOOOOOOO, again it will be Dion Not A Leader.
You know why, because he's not!
And this is why we lost the election...very badly!
I hope the GG grants Harper his time out. Seriously!
Diana
"The story should have been Harper's bizarro address to the nation"
Can't agree more, what a waste of a DUD speech.
Diana,
Dion, missteps and all, is far more preferable than another month, week, minute, or second of Harper.
Welcome to Moosonee
Peter
Dion was good I thought, hit some strong notes. It's too bad that was lost.
Anyways, calling the GG :)
Pete. I'd love to believe that. I want to believe that. Sad to say after tonight I don't.
I will not support Dion as PM. He cannot do this job. Hell, this is job for someone like Chrétien and it would be tough for him too.
Running a country isn’t a game. It’s a serious business.
I have to think that running this country with two partners would be very tough. Dion can’t do it IMO. Allowing this to happen will damage us ( our Party) for a generation. The mistakes that he makes will affect people’s real lives. Their jobs and their homes.
Honestly, I don’t know what we should do. I’m feeling pretty low tonight.
Both Harper & Dion will hurt Canada.
Diana
The general consensus seems to be that the whole thing on all sides was a dude
That's a bit sexist. I thought there were many very feminine aspects to it as well.
I only got to watch PMSH until he started spitting the word "separatists", but I have only one thought.
Many, many people in Quebec speak both official languages, Sideshow Steve. Switching out separatists for sovereignists isn't fooling anyone.
The CPC can give up any hope of another seat in Quebec for a generation, but I guess he didn't really *want* that majority.
The coalition and Dion will create and save Canadian jobs. This is worth the fight.
ooops, dud...
Oh, and Mobius...
I think I love you. That was my exact thought when I saw the "dude" too.
I think I love you.
Thank you, thank you very much! The comedy stylings of Mobius, appearing soon near you.
I hope you're female.
I agree completely with what Scotian said upthread (and I sincerely hope you are feeling better soon).
It's unfortunate that Dion's contribution was delayed or that he didn't spend large amounts of taxpayer's money to produce something more professional, but his words were honest and substantive.
Beneath the slow-speaking, Polka Dot door narration, was an undeniable anger in Harper's 4 1/2 minute statement. I felt threatened.
When he said, "Let me be clear, I will use any legal means available...", I felt a shiver. I thought, what does that mean? He doesn't even acknowledge or respect parliamentary rules or constitutional rights.
It sounded like a prelude to drastic action. Then my mind drifted to the War Measures Act.
Harper spent his first turn as leader of a minority government bullying his opposition, especially Dion who was made his personal whipping boy. But his actions over the past many weeks show him to be even more power hungry and dangerous than we have ever seen before.
At this point, I'd say Harper is close to being dragged out of the HoC in a straight jacket. Or even worse, he gets his way and this country is a wash.
look at me, I'm unifying the country with my typo;)
Fear of "legal means"? Must be a name for that phobia. I suspect if the "coalition" overplays it's hand, he'll a) prorogue, and b) try to lure a few Libs to cross the floor to save their asses. Stronach may not be available, but Iggy might get pried loose.
(twirling moustache like Snidely Whiplash)
Martha Hall Finley pointed out that allowing prorogation now could set dangerous precedent: it will be used to avoid confidence votes.
Martha Hall Finley pointed out that allowing prorogation now could set dangerous precedent: it will be used to avoid confidence votes.
Yeah, that would be like luring floor-crossers with cabinet positions on the eve of a confidence vote. Evil!
Yeah, that would be like luring floor-crossers with cabinet positions on the eve of a confidence vote. Evil!
No it wouldn't, you idiot. Parliament operates separately from the Crown.
Steve - "It wasn't just CTV, CBC was making fun as well. The good news, tomorrow is all about the GG, but my good god, there's no excuse for the delay, nor the grade three production quality."
Agreed. I was super pissed. This is not a game, this is serious. Serious for the Country and serious for the Libs/NDP and BQ. If this coalition falls apart then Harper will basically have a majority as the opposition parties can't afford an election. If this coalition forms the government and this turn out badly then Canadians will punish those parties and hand the Conservatives a majority.
I continue to support the coalition. I felt that Dion was the only person to lead it until the leadership race is over - not any more. I watched this farce with several people who are generally Liberal supporters, but not fans of Dion. This was his chance to reasure them. He couldn't have done worse being both significantly late and amateur recording. Many people have said that Harper should put the country ahead of himself and step down. Time for Dion to put the country first. My hope is that the leadership candidates will do the same thing and install the leadership race front runner as the new party leader immediately.
No it wouldn't, you idiot. Parliament operates separately from the Crown.
Non-sequitur post of the day winner!
Have another toke.
quite frankly the whole lot of them tonight looked like a bunch of amateurs or dudes, im not sure...
Haha. That anon crown comment is pretty funny.
Good on CTV for showing how Harper is the more divisive on the separtist issue. I thought their coverage tonight was fairly balanced, even Fife toned it down (but was still smug about it).
I feel like tomorrow is christmas! I hope I don't get coal.
Wow! Beijing, that's wild that you caught that, too! It was palpable, it really was and I thought, OMG, he's up to something really, really bad. The G-G cannot prorogue or we will have the military in our streets!
Comment from my brother in law:
"Ouais, je pense que cette fois on va savoir lequel pisse le plus loin...."
Prorogation granted. A dark day for our parliamentary democracy with this ill-conceived precedent being set. The GG has no balls.
Harper's inability to admit mistakes is staggering. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Dion should step down NOW. No more fucking about. He needs to swallow whatever he has left of his pride and go before Parliament resumes. I believe Liberals need to demand this.
And why the fuck did Harper's hair look so brown last night and so grey today?! Fuck! I am so angry right now I could just fucking scream!!!
The changing hair color comment is actually a good question. It is bizarre how Harper's hair changes.
But the eyes, they never change. never. don't stare at them too long, even in photos ;).
No, the cold doll eyes are consistent.
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