Saturday, August 21, 2010

What A Stupid Poll, What A Stupid "News" Organization

We've all seen some shit polls in our time, but this latest QMI/Leger "offering" might be the worst yet. If this is indicative of the new Kory Teneycke reign, it would seem the term LAME has found new relevance. Intellectually dishonest, it reads more like a PMO press release, than a supposed news organization.

"Iggy's summer tour a flop: poll" reads the headline. Did you know that Ignatieff had been on the road for 3 weeks when this poll was taken? Did you know that Ignatieff has been on the for 3 weeks SINCE this poll was taken? Did you know that Ignatieff will be on the road for another 3 weeks?

I expect absolutely nothing (except for David Akin- run David run!) from the new Sun Media manifestation, but the pollster here is insanely disappointing:
Dave Scholz with Leger Marketing. "Now near the end of the summer tour, we're finding that only 8% of people know more about him now than they did before. That's a pretty small number.

Good grief, "near the end" eh Dave? Try 1/3 through the tour when you took the poll. Scholz goes further, citing Ontarians as disproportionately aware of the tour and having their views impacted. Well golly gee Dave, might have something to do with the fact the tour was primarily in ONTARIO during the small subset of the tour you've used to extrapolate over the full calendar. I guess the sad part, clients actually pay for this "analysis". Absolutely astounding that the pollster makes definitive comments when he knows the poll is THREE WEEKS OLD! Take heart Liberals, using the above logic and statistics, we can conclude that 24% of Canadians will know more about Ignatieff by tour's end- of those by a 3 to 1 ratio they will have an improved opinion. Sounds like success I say, thank you Sun Media!

More from Scholz:

"I think the Liberal Party would like to forget the summer of 2010."

Dave, Canadians are going to be mightily pissed when they find out that Leger Marketing has unilaterally cut SUMMER IN HALF! Kory Teneycke wants to take away your summer Canada, he really is that scary.

So far, the only "flop" I'm sensing is the new Sun Media. What a disgrace, if not entirely surprising, given the quality of new management.

Anyways, I missed the Leafs game last night, so off to the PVR to see if they can continue this early season winning streak...


BCL had a similar reaction. Impolitical with more.


James Bowie said...

Good work Steve

RuralSandi said...

The Sun is on a mission alright. Coren has an article today slamming the Chronicle Herald - over "one" opinion piece.

So, the only way the Sun sees it, try to destroy what you consider your enemies.

Pretty pathetic.

Remember - Kory said it would be balanced reporting - haven't seen any sign of that yet.

A reader said...

Going to have to roundly agree with you on this one, Steve V.

I could not believe how much that story was torqued.

liberazzi said...

THANK YOU! A flop? Natwatch posted an commentary from Bruce Anderson the same day complimenting Iggy on his tour, along with every other credible news org in this country. What dishonest bullshit!

In any event, the Sun is missing the point anyhow. The point of the tour was to get Iggy battle ready and show the "real" Iggy,so by the criteria the tour has been a success. Whether or not the polls went up or down was irrelevant. However, the polls have been generally trending up for the Libs and down for the Cons.

For Natwatch to post this headline, without any sort of disclaimer is also disappointing. Moreover, I have never understood how one poll becomes the new norm. For instance, Ekos posts a poll on Thursday and thats the new norm, then another polling firm posts a poll the very next day with contradictory results and suddenly that's the precedent?

In any event, if you take the averages over the past few weeks, it appears that it is 28%Libs and 32%Cons. 37% seriously? What action by the Cons or by screw-up by the Libs could justify this sort of jump?

RuralSandi said...

Funny, this whole bus thing is to get people to know Ignatieff a little better and it seems to be successful.

Chretien did the same thing just before the 1993 election and on a much smaller scale. His poll numbers didn't differ at all BUT come the next election he wiped out the Cons.

So, this really isn't for poll numbers, it for familiarity.

How can David Akin associate himself with this class-less and immature newspaper?

Ted Betts said...

Don't forget: Harper did it too in 2005. Roundly criticized, no discernible growth in polls, but it was very significant in getting Harper election ready, getting him to test drive policy ideas, getting the Conservative team working together, getting MPs and supporters to know him so they could campaign for him.

Jerry Prager said...

QMI Quack Media Inc.

"Fighting for fascism as hard as we can."

Kory's idea of balance is fly in circles on a right wing flapping like toothless gums.

Harper's toady.

bullpup said...

Chretien had free trade and GST to run on, Ignatieff hasn't got anything of that caliber, yet.

RuralSandi said...

Layton and wife Chow are both urban MP's - could they lose their seats over this? Hmmm........

ottlib said...

In defence of the pollster, before you become too mad at him remember that he has to do what his paymaster tells him and we all know how "objective" the Sun Group of newspapers is.

They told the pollster what kind of analysis they wanted from him and he took the estimates that best met that analysis and focused on them.

This is common practice for polls sponsored by news organization, which is why I largely ignore them.

I would also point out that coming out of the summer of 2005 all of the news organizations were publishing polls with the Liberals around 8 points up on the Conservatives and news reports that Stephen Harper had a brutal summer.

We all know what happen just four months later.

penlan said...

Hey Steve,
This post of yours is on top at NationalNewswatch! Good one!!

Steve V said...

I have to admit, I'm getting a little tired of the lazy 2005-06 analogies. Unless of course people expect a redux of a false RCMP investigation changing the polls 10% in one day, it's a pretty useless comparison. Fact is, if not for that gift from the god, Harper would have been a historical footnote. He was doing brutal, and we shouldn't use the ultimate result as a comfort blanket, because in reality it was LUCK that gave him any traction.

I think Ignatieff is having a terrific summer, beyond my expectations to be frank. I just think we don't need to put square pegs in round holes to justify things. Two cents.

Tomm said...


Totally agree about Ignatieff's good summer.

Prior to this everybody was focussing on anything Ignatieff might say they could ring up as pretentious. By him going out and doing his regular guy thing, he has changed the optics around himself. Whoever decided this was the way to go was bang on.

But I am getting almost no news from his excellent summer. What does Ignatieff think about the Veteran's Ombudsman going off? What does Ignatieff think of the Tamil filled boat? The F35's he is apparently against and will deep-6 the project, but even that was almost below the radar. I'm not getting many stories.

The media has to start reporting his answers to these questions. I have no doubt he has opinions, I'm just not hearing them.

The media is still treating anything Liberal as royalty. Tainted royalty, perhaps, but royalty, just the same. They are also treating anything Conservative as smelly and questionable.

Even after all these years it still disappoints me. Bring on Sun News. At least we will have a yin for the yang.

Steve V said...

"Bring on Sun News. At least we will have a yin for the yang."

This isn't a counter, this is an extension of a political party, which has been made QUITE clear. That conservatives are willing to chuck their supposed principles, in the name of political expediency, is so disappointing. Every one of you, on the right side just blindly welcomes something which is an affront to the very nature of political coverage. You can quibble with bias, but I'm starting to realize that the more and more this develops, the more "left wing" media is really an attack on logic, fact based reporting.

98% of climate scientists believe in global warming, they people that work in the field, those with no agenda. The media reports on the totality of opinion, and the clowns in your party say that it's a one sided presentation, we need other outlets to give another side. The problem- there is no "other" side within the expert community, at least not enough to merit a real "debate". That's bias to your crowd Tomm, which is why I've concluded this is all really about a war on reason, knowledge and common sense. Maybe the media is left wing from where the radical right stands, and thank god they are, because the "other" side is patently ignorant, lacking any sophistication to comment on JACK SQUAT intelligently.

Seriously, the more I hear and read the retorts, the more I think this is really a discussion on the failure of the Canadian educational system. You're in bed with a cadre of mental midgets Tomm, if that's a "bias", so be it.

Tomm said...


So now you have decided that all Conservative supporters are against man made climate change. Are we also against the census? How about gays? Are we against aboriginals too? How about immigrants? refugees? What are your thoughts?

In general, this country needs to man up and begin acting like a nation with values and resolve. In general this country is over governed and over taxed. Our government should not be using tax dollars for political advocacy. If people want to support something political, let them pay for it themselves. This of course, includes the arts as well as protests or parades. This nation spends far too much time and money coddling people that would be better helped by showing them how to make it for themselves.

THAT is what the average Conversative supporter believes.

The rest is specific policy decisions that they may or may not agree with. Get the Liberal Party of Canada to espouse THOSE general views and their votes will rise.

With respect to Sun News, wouldn't it be good if some news outlet reported on some of the detail of what I have just written?

You could reject it if you wish, but wouldn't it be a little fresh media air?

Steve V said...

"So now you have decided that all Conservative supporters are against man made climate change. Are we also against the census? How about gays? Are we against aboriginals too? How about immigrants? refugees? What are your thoughts? "

No, but if you want to find a anti gay, climate change denying, anti-indigenious person who thinks that the census is invasive and unnecessary, I'd start looking at Blogging Tories ;)

You probably thinks a sewer smells like "fresh air" to?

Tomm, just go back to the knuckledraggin circlejerk, that alternate universe, where you can reaffirm your ignorance, knowing you're not alone. By any definition FoxNews is shit journalism, propaganda and intellectually dishonest. Defend it all you want, but the 30% of Republicans who are so clued out that they think their President is a Muslim, is proof positve what a counter-productive, backward manifestation that shapes opinion. It's sad, and yet you champion similar here.

Go away Tomm, I don't care to listen anymore :)

Tomm said...


You said:

"Go away Tomm, I don't care to listen anymore :)"

I don't come to comment here very often, even less so recently. We have occasionally had some pretty stimulating discussions, most notably about climate change policies and politics, something we both have some knowledge and passion for.

You should be open to hosting stimulating discussions that include people with opposing views. But I guess not with me.

Just remember the people with views like me will still exist and be productive members of society, even when more left wing government's are in power. I think you and your party are making a mistake in trying to marginale an important wing of societal views. But with that piece of closing advice, good bye.

Steve V said...

Happy trails :)

Omar said...

Happy trails?

Get stuffed, Tomm. You and everyone else who hold societal views such as your own. I'd rather see this country break apart then to see it denigrate into what you clowns believe to be a nation of values and resolve. You are not a compatriot, you are the enemy.

Gayle said...

"You should be open to hosting stimulating discussions that include people with opposing views."

He is. the problem, Tomm, is that you do not provide "stimulating" discussion. Anyone, ANYONE, who resorts the paranoid conspiracy theory that the media are biased in favour of hte liberals is someone who is used to making excuses for any bad coverage Harper may get, instead of holding him accountable for his decisions.

It is a lazy, worthless, and quite frankly mind numbingly stupid argument. Intelligent people do consider "the media are all out to get us" as stimulating argument.

Tomm said...


Take care.


All you do is spew venom. You must be wonderful dinner guest.


Omar said...

Don't like spewers of venom, Tomm? Good. Perhaps you'll reconsider your blind acceptance of a government whose stock and trade relies so heavily on the practise.

au revoir.

Tof KW said...

Tomm, fact is Kory Teneycke is creating the official propaganda wing of the Conservative Party of Canada; and Joseph Goebbels would be proud.

If the media really were Lib-biased; d'ya think that maybe they'd be doing better that 27-28% in the polls right now?

You should be more like (and listen to) Tom Flanagan. I don't agree with a lot of the man's politics, but he's always been a straight-shooter and never afraid to tell it like it is. He's already stated that there is no left-wing media bias anymore in Canada ...they once was, but it's become balanced since Harper became PM.

Tom Flanagan is definitely a Conservative, but unlike the Harperbots he does not subscribe to stupid conservatism.

Ted Betts said...

Godwin's rule, T of KW, man. Don't take it too far. We end up looking no better or different than the idiots on the far left or the far right.

Tof KW said...

Mr. Betts, I am well aware that one looses the debate once they compare their opponents to Hitler or Stalin. However the principles of propaganda as laid out by Dr. Goebbels are still very relevant, and practiced by many to this day. FOXNews to the south being the most obvious ...24/7 fear and paranoia about attacks against the homeland are straight out of his teachings. And Kory-TV will be no different.

Ted Betts said...

There is, without a doubt, something very disconcerting behind a political party in government actively setting up a news organization that overtly describes itself as an ally of said political party and is headed up by one of the key members of that political party.

State news organizations, like Pravda, are dangerous to liberty and democracy. I don't have a problem with another overtly conservative new organization, we have many now and it's part of democracy and free enterprise. It is astonishing to me how little concern and attention, and how much cheerleading, is spent by on the fact of the government's direct involvement in SunTV.

That all being said, there are lots and lots of propaganda experts out there to cite. Citing Goebbels has very precise implications and, as anti-democratic as Harper may be, I do not think even he would wish to impose a fascist anti-semitic state on Canada.

Tof KW said...

I like your analogy with Pravda, that is closer to what SUNnews will be. And if I may add, even FOXNews does not have the overt, direct political connections with the GOP that SUNnews enjoys with the CPofC.