Wednesday, March 26, 2008

Here We Go

Let the games begin:
Federal Liberals from Quebec will move to show Stephane Dion the door if he doesn't give up leadership of the party on his own, Sun Media has learned.

Former Liberal candidate Pierre-Luc Bellerose, who ran for the party in Joliette, northeast of Montreal, said dissatisfied members will begin the process to revoke Dion's party membership if he doesn't quit as Liberal leader.

He said his strategy is supported by a number of influential members of the party, along with a dozen riding association presidents and a few elected MPs from across Quebec.

Bellerose said he is convinced Dion has lost control over the party in Quebec and the organization is no longer following its leader.

Should Dion fail to heed this warning, Bellerose has threatened to invoke Article 3.7.1 of the Quebec wing of the federal Liberal party's statutes and regulations to force him to resign.

The provisions of this article give the Quebec wing the right to strip a party member of his membership.

Dion would become the first Liberal subject to this rule, though Bellerose expects Dion's actual expulsion would be unlikely.

What can you say?

42 comments:

Kris said...

Sad that it's come to this. There is something to say in this being regionally based and probably made up of Ignatieff backers, but it does not bode well that Dion hasn't been able to reign them in with any measure of success.

It's debatable whether the Quebec wing is "justified" in this act, but not that Dion's slack grip over them has led to it.

northwestern_lad said...

Wow... I thought Stephane was going to make history by becoming only the 2nd Liberal Leader to never become Prime Minister, but looks like he might make this bit of history first. Amazing.

Steve V said...

The problem now, this is open revolt, not a whisper campaign. How you put the genie back in the bottle here escapes me. The only route, a purge, but given the anemic party numbers to begin with, that amounts to essentially nullifying the party in Quebec, there would be nothing left, and no new recruits running to fill the ranks. One other point, if these people are turfed, don't expect them to go quietly in the night, you may see the prospects of another party emerging.

James Curran said...

Who wants these vile despots reigned in? Get rid of them completely.

And, this guy never ran in Joliette. He quit. He's not a candidate. He's a puke.

Steve V said...

"Get rid of them completely."

Let's take his claims at face value. If you have a dozen riding presidents and several MP's, you can assume these are stronghold people talking. Sure, you can get rid of them, but who is going to fill the void James? The Quebec Liberals are down to the bare bones, nobody is knocking at the door to come work for Dion. A purge essentially means the Liberal Party in Quebec is dead, except for a couple thousand loyalists bailing water. I think a cull would have happened a long time ago, if it was realistic or feasible for that matter.

Bailey said...

Seems like this guy pops up every 6 months or so and starts complaining. He hasn't really said anything different than what he said last October when he stepped down as a candidate.

http://cowboysforsocialresponsibility.blogspot.com/2007/10/just-asking.html

Bailey said...

http://cowboysforsocialresponsibility.blogspot.com/2007/10/just-asking.html

There's the link again. Not sure why it didn't work the first time.

A BCer in Toronto said...

The clique that controls the LP in Quebec has been running the organization into the ground for years, before the last election. They fought tooth and nail against Dion in the leadership, they've never accepted that he won, and they've been working to undermine him from day one. This isn't a grassroots thing, this is party hacks with their own priorities that have never wanted him as leader. Organization happens at the provincial and regional level, and its these same geniuses that have ran the organization into the ground and have been sitting on their hands that are now blaming Dion for lack of organization. It was their job to do the organizing! He doesn't control the LPCQ, and they're sure not supporters of his. It's personal, it's petty, it's transparent and it's nauseating.

Do I blame Dion? Sure. I blame him for not purging a group of quislings that haven't been doing their jobs and have been constantly working to undermine him, and the Liberal Party. I blame him for not kicking their asses.

But I blame these idiots even more, and I've had it with their bullshit.

Jason Cherniak said...

You can say it's all based on the word of one jackass who has no power to do anything.

Steve V said...

If only it were one jackass. Here's a question, do people think Dion has the support of the majority of the 10000 Quebec Liberals? I say no, which might explain why Dion really can't kick anyone's ass, because in so doing, it amounts to dismantling the party. The only way it works for Dion, is too get these people on side. Clearly, that effort has failed, and I would argue, it was never dealt with, with the urgency required. Like it or not, it was always incumbent upon Dion to win people's confidence, a purge amounted to extermination, not renewal.

Idealistic Pragmatist said...

See, if I were a Liberal, what I'd want to know from all the Dion naysayers in Quebec is what precisely they think he's done wrong as leader, who could do a better job, and how. (In fact, I'm not a Liberal, and I still want to know that.)

In any case, I still think the problems with the Liberal party lie with the party itself and not with Dion in particular. And this whole weird Canadian practice of getting rid of party leaders whenever things are going badly, with no attention paid to what other things might be wrong, continues to make me scratch my head.

bigcitylib said...

And, IP, why they want to bail on him now when most polls have them doing at least as well or maybe a little better than last time around. It isn't as though the party as a whole has tanked in Que. It does have its strong-holds. These guys seem bound and determined to lose those as well.

Anonymous said...

This is exactly what I have talking about. Instead of posting on topics that speak of the unity and strength of the Liberal party, you dig up this crap. Like Jason C said; What have you done for the Liberal party recently?

A BCer in Toronto said...

What party, Steve? The fact is these guys are doing sweet all to try to fix anything or to build the organization in Quebec. So it's not like turfing them is going to leave you further behind than you already are. And you're rid of malcontents working to undermine you.

And the fact is, these people don't want to be onside. They have zero desire to be onside. They want Dion gone because they don't like him, they don't like his disdain for their soft nationalist line. The only thing that will bring them onside is turfing Dion and I'm sorry, but there was an election, and they lost.

You can work with people that want you dead.

Dan said...

Lets make no mistake, for this moron Bellerose to even suggest removing the membership of Stéphane Dion is horrendous. I don't even care about the situation in Quebec. We are totally screwed there regardless. We have to try to hold our seats in Montreal and hope we can have some semblance of an organization elsewhere in the province.

But again, to take away the membership from such a great member of this party and such a great public servant would be beyond disgust. If Dion isn't good enough for this party, than I certainly don't want to have anything to do with it either.

Anonymous said...

I think Dion should give the Quebec Liberal's up to the young and the environmental (assuming this is possible). It is stale at the top and other than a few strongholds it appears some rejuvenation is needed. If we aren't getting anywhere with these incompetent organizers then why not make things better for the future?

Anonymous said...

I totally agree, Dan. If Dion isn't good enough for this party, then I don't want anything to do with it either. That will make two of us.

Steve V said...

Jeff

Lot of people hated Chretien too, but he was skilled enough to keep them off balance, and keep his loyalists strong. The problem here, and I'm not excusing the poor sports, Dion hasn't been able to gain the confidence of anyone, he has never conveyed the impression that he is in charge, or understands the severity.

I've never been under the impression, from the outside looking in, that Dion understood the gravity of the situation in Quebec. A few nice soundbites, but people should have been in crisis mode a long time ago.

A Liberal leader has to be able to stickhandle, it's the nature of the beast. My question, does Dion possess the instincts to wade through the minefield? Start purging, it will only get worse. That's my prediction.

Steve V said...

"This is exactly what I have talking about. Instead of posting on topics that speak of the unity and strength of the Liberal party, you dig up this crap. Like Jason C said; What have you done for the Liberal party recently?"

Well this week, I signed up two new members and dropped two hundred dollars to see Dryden speak. Yourself?

If you want pom poms, there are plenty of blogs to do cheers. Give me a L, I, give me spin, B, E, ignore what is happening R, A, L. If you don't like it, GET LOST!!

Babylonian777 said...

Kris said....

****************************
"Sad that it's come to this. There is something to say in this being regionally based and probably made up of Ignatieff backers, but it does not bode well that Dion hasn't been able to reign them in with any measure of success. "
*****************************

I know your used the word probably here, and I tend to agree with you. Do you have anyhting that would suggest this? Even overhearing things, or something anicdotal in nature?

Babylonian777 said...

I mean that the Ignatieff team is psuedo-lobbying to knock Dion off balance?

Joseph said...

I don't think Dion has to demand anyone leave or purge any members at all. They seem to be doing a good job of alienating themselves on their own. Give them enough rope and they'll all expose - and hang - themselves.

If anything, I think Dion should just state publicly he simply won't deal with incompetent whiners who failed the Liberals in Quebec as he works to build a stronger party with the many others who believe in a strong vision for the people of Quebec and for all of Canada . . . or something along those lines.

He doesn't have to name any names, but he can make it clear that anyone who feels differently is free to turn in their memberships.

Obviously these idiots aren't "building" the party in Quebec anyway so the anemic numbers argument doesn't hold water. I'd really rather see the Liberals fold in Quebec than give any of these whiners their way. I don't think membership numbers can rise until these schemers and dreamers are gone. Just give them the freedom to publicly stomping out of the party themselves. Some will - good riddens - but I suspect many will plant themselves in the "good Liberal" camp and pipe down, regardless of their true feelings.

Just as with the Outremont, it is clear to me they "launched" this attack purposefully after the by-elections. So they clearly don't want accommodation or negotiation; they simply want to orchestrate Dion's collapse.

If only they could manage to prepare for an election against the other parties with the intensity they are going after their own leader, maybe Quebec wouldn't be such a liberal shamble right now.

I'm not always a fan of Dion's approach, but in this case I think he's good to just ignore their games. They have shown time and again that they don't want to work for the party. I suspect these are the type of folks who generated the sponsorship crap that hurt the Liberals to begin with. Piss them off even more by ignoring their selfish demands for attention, get them more an more in the open, and then show their crybaby asses where the door is.

Steve V said...

It might be a good time for Iggy to call a reporter, and reaffirm his uneqivocal support for Dion, distance himself from this revolt.

northwestern_lad said...

Purging??? Kicking people out??? Isn't that what the Conseratives do??? That hasn't worked for them in the past, so why does anyone think that it will work for the Liberals???

I would add to one to what Steve has been saying. Not only would booting all those people strip the Liberal bones bare, you'd also be giving whatever party these disgruntled people decide to get behind extremely motivated supporters who will do whatever they can do defeat the Liberals. I guess the question is do you want that motivation working from the inside of your party trying to make it better, or outside working against your party?

Steve V said...

Wells has a interesting read today.

David Graham - cdlu.net said...

Steve,

Joseph is on the right track in my opinion. The folks in Quebec are, by all appearances, either completely incompetent or deliberately obstructionist. In either case, purging them from management would be beneficial, but letting them hoist themselves on their own petard isn't all bad.

Personally I would rather win Canada than Quebec anyway (and I'm an exiled Quebecker).

TheIronist said...

As a dedicated member of another political party, all I can say is please, please don't get rid of Dion! Whatever the LPC decides to do, it must keep Stephane Dion as leader! To that end, I have even begun a letter-writing campaign, "Now and Forever: An All Party Call To Keep Stephane Dion As Liberal Leader!"

The guy's just too much of a gem to lose. Never mind that the LPC will never get anywhere with him at the helm.

Ti-Guy said...

Steve, do you really not care about politics and governance? All this blog seems to become when it involves the Liberals is a gossip-fest based on the most insignificant rumour and a tedious troll-arama for silly Conservatives who need to smell blood elsewhere to keep themselves distracted from their own party's moral corruption.

...sorry. Carry on!

Kris said...

Babylonian...

Nope, certainly no evidence. I've barely spent a week of my life in Quebec, just hearsay and common sense.

To be clear, I don't think there is an Ignatieff "team" schemeing to bring down Dion; bcer in to said it best, these are people who "fought tooth and nail against Dion in the leadership, they've never accepted that he won, and they've been working to undermine him from day one. This isn't a grassroots thing, this is party hacks with their own priorities that have never wanted him as leader."

I meant to imply these people were made up mostly of Ignatieff backers, due mostly to the sheer number of them in Quebec.

Steve V said...

ti guy

It's just a blog, you take it all WAY too seriously. It's an issue, which everybody is discussing, why should it be ignored online?

As for Con trolls, seems to me that you exist to wrassle with them, hurl invective, rarely is there anything substantive or frankly relevant. Carry on!

Ti-Guy said...

It's just a blog, you take it all WAY too seriously.

One of the better Liberal blogs, because you get a diversity of commentary. What I just get tired of is juvenile Conservatives thinking the quite natural bickering and internecine squabbles that are fundamental to political Liberalism are invitations to interfere with commentary made in bad faith.

This has been going on for years and it's not helping the Liberals. Challenge and dissent are fine, but undermining isn't acceptable.

Steve V said...

"What I just get tired of is juvenile Conservatives thinking the quite natural bickering and internecine squabbles that are fundamental to political Liberalism are invitations to interfere with commentary made in bad faith."

I've told you before, I do cull, especially if it's just mindless nonsense. And, I'm well aware that any anti-Liberal posting of mine is seized upon by Blogging Tories, but you can't let that dictate open discussion.

This post here might fall in the "gossip" column, but it's still relevant, because it feeds a perception. I would argue, the past posts, on things like election readiness are based in fact and need to be addressed. And, I would rather look at the by-elections from a non-partisan perspective, rather than allowing myself the comfort of spin, which it seems to me is the most dangerous of mindsets.

Steve V said...

Quebec MP's speak out, forcefully.

Gayle said...

Steve - I read your link.

Hopefully Iggy will come forward with something similar.

Did you catch Sheila Copps and Warren Kinsella on MDL today?

Steve V said...

gayle

Yes, I saw them. No comment ;)

I said in one of the earlier comments, that Iggy should call a media contact and make a strong statement. Coderre was pretty clear, but Iggy would get more press. Maybe somebody made the calculation that Iggy's vote of confidence would just amplify it more.

Ti-Guy said...

I've told you before, I do cull, especially if it's just mindless nonsense.

I'm just concerned that your lack of message discipline might result in public shaming and official banning.

...;)

Antonio said...

This is tabloid journalism at its worst.

Nobody in Quebec supports this.

I am fed up tho of people blaming Michael Ignatieff every time something happens in Quebec. This is getting really tiresome, and frankly, it is insulting to the many people in Quebec, especially those who supported Mr. Ignatieff, and are still doing their best, despite the worst case scenario coming to fruition.

This Bellerose guy is a crackpot. End of Story. I know it is the Sun but this wild accusations shouldnt have passed any journalist's smell test...

ridiculous

Joseph said...

Besides, don't we all have something else to focus on now that Harper and gang have decided to launch more grenades at McGuinty in hopes of dragging Ontario down so they can pick up scraps?

Let's discuss the fine leadership of the, um, "master" instead ; ).

Möbius said...

Challenge and dissent are fine, but undermining isn't acceptable.

You're Cherniak, aren't you?

Gayle said...

antonio - that is good to hear. When you are stuck way out here in Alberta it is hard to know...

My comment about Iggy coming forward was not because I was blaming him. I thought it would be appropriate for him to speak publicly because of all the speculation. That said, Steve may have it right that it might draw too much attention.

I think the fact party members are being dismissive is probably the best approach - it gives it the seriousness it deserves.

Now can someone from Quebec please put forward a motion to strip Bellerose of his membership? :)

John said...

I really think Wells said it best: "Just because everyone with knives out for Dion can be traced to one guy means nothing at all. Ignatieff, after all, is not the leader of anyone. Of course, if he wants to be a leader one day, he can start practising any time. "

If he doesn't start showing now he can reign in his OWN supporters then he has will never have any business trying to tell people he could lead a future divided Liberal caucus. When you can't control your own supporters it doesn't build much confidence that you'll be able to control those who inevitably won't support you. So we can safely assume that with Iggy as leader the backsniping would continue just from a different circle, this just a sad story that tells of a decade in opposition. Iggy could show his leadership skills now and show he's actually a team player and not out for himself, it would certianly impress those who didn't support him, but somehow I doubt he ever quells any of this.

Anonymous said...

Antonio are you trying your best. Oh thats right you jumped ship after your guy lost. Boohoo.