Sunday, July 13, 2008

Waiting For The Outrage?

Hey, all you Conservatives from Alberta and Saskatchewan, talking about dasdardly plans to steal your money, Dion's "sinister" plot to transfer wealth from west to east, where are you now?:
Prentice was among 62 Conservative MPs who have put their names on more than 130 news releases in which they announced, re-announced or otherwise took credit for nearly $3 billion in spending announcements that have gushed forth since MPs broke for summer recess 24 days ago.

An analysis by Canwest News Service shows the bulk of these spending announcements have been made in regions and ridings where the Conservatives need to win new seats to gain a majority. But in those areas of the country that are already bedrocks of Conservative support, such as Alberta or Saskatchewan, the money is barely trickling in..

Conservatives know they need another five to 10 seats in Quebec for an electoral breakthrough. Quebec ministers Lawrence Cannon and Jean-Pierre Blackburn have been leading the summer spending in their province, where there have been 31 spending announcements so far totalling more than $1.1 billion.

Ontario, too, is another crucial political battleground for the Tories and the pace of handouts there has been almost as hectic as Quebec - 27 releases for better than $360 million.

But between Winnipeg and the eastern fringes of Vancouver, where Ralph Goodale's seat in Regina is the lone Liberal outpost, spending has been more muted.

In Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba combined, there have been 25 announcements for funding totalling just $62 million.

That's right, a full 2% of the total spending announcements, less when you exclude Manitoba, has been spent on the regions where people are now crying foul. Talk about a transfer of wealth, and yet, not a peep. Once again proving selective outrage, as your champions do exactly what you see RED over. What a country.


Anonymous said...

The thing is this redirection of our money would change once a majority was in place. They just need to get it first.

Anonymous said...

I might be wrong, but I vaguely remember that when the tar sands were first being set up, they were heavily subsidized by the federal government. I also vaguely remember that it was a Liberal government headed by Pierre Trudeau who initiated this policy.

If true, the Albertan attitude is---amongst other things---an appalling exercise in ingratitude. ;-)

ottlib said...


They only get outraged when the Liberals take from the West and give to the East.

They have no problem when it is the Conservatives that do it.

C'mon Steve try to keep up! :)

Steve V said...

My apologies.

Anonymous said...

Dude, have you been to Alberta lately? They're doing fine, they don't want or need federal handouts. Unlike some places.

burlivespipe said...

You seem to be missing the boat, anonymoos #2... It isn't that Alberta ain't doing fine. It's that when the Liberals announce a pre-election platform that would see wealth re-distributed (including a tax cut to all those who, no matter where they lived, wished to take advantage) from big polluters to those who make wise, environmentally responsible choices, there's that ol' "fear factor" that the CONs are so skilled at manipulating.
But when Albertans taxes are being used to bribe Quebec and Ontario voters, a redistribution with somewhat different ideals, the outrage is muted, if completely mundane.
Harper meanwhile wouldn't dare campaign on his 'energy projects'... haven't heard much about his 'nuclear vision', have we?

lance said...

Geez, I must have missed the press release the CPC put out that said they were going to institute a new tax, 40% funded by two provinces and 4 million people to pay off the eastern ridings.

If you don't understand the difference between the gov't using existing revenue and creating a completely new tax funded mostly from AB and SK then you're not very smart.

Do I wish the gov't would take less all around, yes. Do I wish they would stop pre-writ spending BS, yes. Am I getting bulldozed _more_ than someone from rural Ont by it? No.

The same can not be said about Dipshift's plan.


Oxford County Liberals said...

Gee Lance, too bad I don't see anything in the Green Shift that says that's going to happen. Did you forget about the shift in taxes that will benefit everyone?

Of course you did - and on purpose too, I don't doubt.. because you and conservatives like you out there and the ones in Ottawa are being disingenuous and misleading.

Steve V said...

"Geez, I must have missed the press release the CPC put out that said they were going to institute a new tax, 40% funded by two provinces and 4 million people to pay off the eastern ridings."

I love how people just conveniently leave out the part about greenhouse gases. Hey, let's tackle the problem, but ignore the elephant in the room. Now that's a plan! If you want to reduce GHG, then you have to deal with the 40% coming from those provinces. It's really a simple concept, not some dasdardly attempt to steal money. Everyone off on their own tangents, all the while ignoring the entire premise. Get a clue.

Anonymous said...

Anon... firstly, Ottawa has never had a helping hand in our patch, unless it was to take money out.

There are those who will say "we helped Alberta in the great depression".

Yeah, when you could drive for days without running into a single human being, and since that time the amount taken out of Alberta in the form of taxes, transfers, and out right theft during the NEP, is nearing a trillion dollars.

The rolling 12 month average right now is a $1 billion a month. That's just royalty money. That doesn't include personal or corporate tax's.

When we came to Ottawa for help to develope our fields in the 40's, you know what Ottawa told us to do, go fuck ourselves.

Luckily for us there was a whole load of money available from the US, or it would have taken decades longer.

Alberta has never received equalization, and in fact will pay roughly $4000.00 per person this year more in transfer payments to the rest of the country than it will receive.

Fully 27% of all wealth generated by Alberta per annum goes to the rest of the country in the form of supply and labor. Thats money that leaves the province, before taxation and transfers and royalties.

Close to 300000 manufacturing jobs in Ontario are directly attributable to Alberta.

The Green Shift might have some nobility it in it for the poor, but as an economic tool or an environmental tool, it's completely useless, and poorly thought out.

Steve, your welcome to quote all the economists you'd like, but show me one who speaks to the fact that there is zero legislation meant to prevent large corporations from passing the carbon tax along.

$40 per ton passed along into every aspect of your consumer life, and no one is talking about how much more than the $15 billion it will "shift" in GST revenue.

Everyone wants to hate the Oil Patch, but consider this... Alberta's Oil Industry contributes 2.7% of the total ghg emmissions of the province.

The bulk of our emmissions come from coal. Just like Sask, Ont. Nova Scotia. etc...

Every single aspect of your life will be affected with higher price tags. Everything.

Look around you, there is absolutely nothing in your life today that didn't involve a petroleum product. Whether to produce the product, or to get it to your door.

Careful what you wish for... you might not like the result.

Dions "Green Shift" is nothing more than a rebirth of socialism in a new guise.

Western Canadians by and large don't "get" socialistic scheme's, because we believe in doing for ourselves.

I've never met an Albertan in my life who would have a problem giving any other province help financially, but mention the money going into federal coffers, and they'll put their wallets away faster than Dion can say Kyoto.

It has never been about helping out, it's about the largess of an eastern based government more concerned with it's own agenda than creating a nation.

The Liberal Party, not it's individual members, but the ruling elite within the party, have proven time and again that they are not capable of managing national programs. There's a list of lost money in the 13 years the Liberals were in government that is simply staggering.

High on ideals, as a Liberal should be, but the ruling elite of the liberals can't implement worth a shit, and frankly, the Tories under Brian were not a lot better.

Trudeau... well, I'm from Calgary, so my opinion on him goes without saying.

Regardless, unless someone is willing to stand up and state catagorically that the provinces are disolved, and there will be only local and federal levels of government for the purpose of central management, can forget about taking Alberta to the cleaners again.

It's not going to happen again. Not like last time... I'd fight before I live through that again.

There are those who would call that traitorous... I call the destruction leveled on Alberta during the NEP while the people of the eastern and central parts of the nation stood by and did nothing, traitorous.

My family has been in this country for 400 years... I love this nation, but I'll see it torn in two before we travel the road we went down in the 80's.

So as I already said, be careful of what you wish for, and be damn certain that you understand the price tag before you decide to put an "X" beside Mr. Dions name in an election.

Steve V said...

"Ottawa has never had a helping hand in our patch"

Joe, sorry I couldn't read past this point. You need a history lesson. Come back when you get your facts straight. Such freaking bullshit from you people, it's unreal.

"Close to 300000 manufacturing jobs in Ontario are directly attributable to Alberta."

Oh sorry, I lied. I read this turd too. Where do you make this shit up? I mean, sure some jobs, but 300000? Good grief.

Steve V said...

BTW, people like you don't "love this nation", you actually HATE a good portion of it.

JimBobby said...

Whooee! When the world price for oil was too low to make it feasible, the feds (under Trudeau) kick started the oil sands with a $1.4 billion per year stimulus package of tax credits and outright cash handouts. Those handouts to the oil patch have continued for the past 30 years. Canadian tax payers have funded the tar sands to the tune of $40 billion since Trudeau first started throwing money at Alberta.

This issue came up briefly in the 2004 and 2006 elections. Both parties said they would end the subsidies since the price for oil was high enough. Oil prices have doubled since then but we taxpayers are still paying the $1.4 billion a year to tar sands developers.


Steve V said...

Chretien personally lobbied Bush to ramp up production of the tarsands, in concert with taxbreaks. I wasn't a Liberal then, but these little facts get lost in the fabricated persecution complex. People will remember environmentalists criticizing Chretien for hypocrisy in playing the green card, while simulateneously doing everything in his power to ensure that GHG's would increase. Sort of like Harper now, but it's okay, because he's a Conservative and likes to dress up like a cowboy.

ottlib said...

That's right Joe. When pulling the tar out of the Tar Sands was not economical companies were falling all over themselves to do it anyway.

Back in the day when the greatest export from Alberta was beef one Pierre Trudeau saw great potential for Canada in the black goo that could be found all around Red Dear.

So, he took money from the only have province at the time, Ontario, and poured it into companies willing to develop these areas of oil permeated sand.

I often wonder if considering all of the trouble that came afterwards for his government and his country whether Mr. Trudeau ever regretted starting down that path.

Tomm said...

Joe Calgary,

Nice tirade. 90% is dead on. Steve and his friends just don't want to hear it. So they make up reasons to ignore it.


What Joe is saying is not a joke, it is both serious and mostly accurate. If people in Ontario think they have been full of largesse to western Canada, go ask a Western Canadian, or their parents. They will talk about the "eastern-english" Canadian's dominating politics. They will talk about the dirty thirties. The Crow Rate. The marketing monopolies of the east (see Canadian Wheat Board), Marc Lalonde's NEP, and the many years of being ignored or worse.

All the time the west bellyached occassionally but stayed totally loyal and willing to work as a junior partner within Canada. At only one point did a Western Canada Concept candidate ever win a provincial seat, and that was only for one term. (Consider Quebec...)

If Dion has integrity (i.e. you can trust him) and if he gets elected because of folks in Ontario, and if he gets the NDP and Bloq to support his Green Shift, it may very well destroy Canada.

Initially, inflation will jump and productivity will decline (ever hear of stagflation?). That will be followed by some very ugly rhetoric coming out of western Canada.

Are you honestly ready for that level of division? Just so billions of dollars of mad money can be spread around Ontario on "fun" projects like universal childcare (yippee!), wind power (cool!), and shovelling money at poor people (playing Santa) so the LPC can continue building an unproductive and cynical nanny state.

Be careful what you wish for.

Gayle said...

Tomm and Joe - time to cut the melodrama.

I live here too. Most people vote conservative because they won't vote liberal. I am willing to bet if you did a poll on how many of them actually know what the NEP is, and its effect on this province (its real effect), you would find not so many people can answer that.

All this noise about separation is just that - noise. At the end of the day what most Albertans are is content. They vote PC because they have always done so, and their parents before them. These are not the type of people who are going to bring about the end of the country just because Dion gets elected.

We have had a succession of provincial governments elected on the basis they are going to take on Ottawa. Our provincial governments thrive on that kind of division. It is all a sales job. What people have written here and elsewhere about how Alberta has been subsidized by the feds is true - they just don't teach you that in Alberta schools.

So can the histrionics and act like adults.

Steve V said...

How about moving to the 21st century while you are it. I thought the west had "arrived", starting acting like it, and then it will really be true. The boogeyman is dead. Let's move on, Dion isn't plotting against you, he's trying to reduce GHG. You guys act like Ontario gets off scott free. Tell that to the trucking industry, which is tied to manufacturing. Tell that to the auto industry, which is playing catch up, the last thing they need more drag on increasingly marginal products. What about Nanticoke?

Oxford County Liberals said...

People like Joe Calgary and Tomm are now resorting to blackmail.."Don't make us clean up the environment, or we're taking our toys and going home"

You sound like little kids throwing a temper tantrum after the parents have finally put their foot down and tell you you're going to have to clean up your rooms after messing up the place.

Even if you magically find a separatist movement that somehow votes to separate because you dont want to be responsible global citizens, thats not going to help you anyhow. You'll still have to answer to the world for your polluting the atmosphere.. so dont think that's going to magically stop everyone from forcing Big Oil out there from doing some global responsibility.

Fact of the matter is, EVERYONE will benefit from the shift in taxes so that polluting is taxed higher while personal income tax is lower. This boils down to a bunch of shrieking Cons out there who still believe that global warming is "a socialist scheme" designed to prevent them from making a much money as they can - and to heck with the global consequences.

Tomm said...


Picture the future, not the past. Pray tell How does the Green Shift lessen any GHGs? What is inherent in the plan that will decrease use of fossil fuels? We're already paying a buck fifty a litre and its going up with or without the green shift.

Its a paper exercise that is shifting taxes. Apparently, "neutrally". The oil producing provinces are going to give billions of dollars to the Feds to reduce poverty, pay for childcare, and whatever else is in their 405 bag of tricks.


You are somewhat correct, westerners will believe a little of this. They don't want to be a burden on the planet either. However, that support will evaporate when the result is a recession, inflation, and no apparent change to GHGs. Hence, if it just turns into the LPC got elected by screwing the west, AGAIN.


I'm surprised you would talk about blackmail. That is exactly what the environemntalist lobby has been doing to everybody (the sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!!). Well, guess what, we're all grown ups here and the sky may be falling, but we can't stop it without China, India and the US, so quit scaring the children).

Oxford County Liberals said...


That absolutely is no excuse for doing nothing, as you propose. That is certainly not showing leadership, a supposed Harper and Conservative trait.