Wednesday, July 23, 2008

"Our Legal Position Is Rock Solid" Stephen Harper

Or, maybe not so much:
Four-fifths of the cost of the Conservatives' 2006 election-campaign advertising in Quebec was funnelled through local campaigns in a financing scheme that Elections Canada alleges was illegal, according to testimony provided in a court case.

Ann O'Grady, until April the chief financial officer of the Conservative Party of Canada, said Quebec candidates claimed about 80 per cent of the roughly $1-million in Quebec campaign advertising costs as their own, although the party gave them the money to spend.

The way Tory ad expenses were treated varied greatly between Quebec - where, in the 2005-2006 election campaign, most Tory candidates were considered lost causes - and the rest of the country. Outside Quebec, local candidates only claimed about 7 per cent of Conservative ad costs as local expenses.

Newly filed court documents show that when she was questioned by Elections Canada's lawyer on June 19, Ms. O'Grady revealed that local candidates in Quebec paid about 80 per cent of the cost of all Conservative advertising in Quebec.

The national party paid the remaining 20 per cent.

The money the Quebec candidates "pooled" together paid for about $760,000 in ad production costs and air time, or 80 per cent of the $941,442 the Conservatives spent on ads in the province.

Bravado meets reality.

38 comments:

Mike said...

The Cons have been having a lot of trouble with reality lately...

knb said...

Steve, are you seeing or hearing this covered on any news casts?

I've only seen it in print.

Cliff said...

There is nothing new here at all...this is simply a Liberal friendly newspaper (The Globe and Mail) trying to create a anti Conservative story out of nothing.
Monies were transferred between the national party and Conservative candidates as ALL PARTIES DO.
The head of Elections Canada has a vendetta against the Conservative party.
Lets look at the FACTS.
He has developed a media strategy and has spent over $500,000 of taxpayer money trying to prevent this from going to court.
He raided the Conservative office (1) day before his own discovery in an effort to avod examination.
There was an esay solution to this dispute which all parties could live with. Simply lets the courts decide. This is what was done in the past when the Liberals had disputes.
Why the fear of letting the courts decide now?
Why the substantial waste of taxpayer money?
Why the new strategy?
Why did he leak the raid to the media and the Liberal party?
Why did he choose to investigate himself when there was an appearance of wrongdoing?
Why did he feel compelled to develop a media strategy to combat this possible wrongdoing?
why were these transferred allowed in the past?
Facts are hard to ignore...unless of course he has a hidden agenda.

Kirok said...

Gee Cliff, if Mayrand is such a rotten guy why did Harper appoint him to that position?

knb said...

Is there a single conservative out there that actually understands the facts in these cases?

Apparently not.

Mike said...

knb,

Oh they understand them perfectly...they are just covering up and lying. Its what they do.

Cliff said...

The only response the Liblogs utilize is that he was a Harper appointee...this is simply wrong, he was a Liberal appointee that was promoted by Harper.
Now...if Harper had chosen to clean house and bring NEW blood for this position...he would have been accused of appointing a partisan...
Obviously in hindsight, he should have done this so as to withhold the intregrity of Elections Canada.
The senior bureaucracy does have some partisans...that is unfortunate.
Clearly there were issues within the RCMP that have been addressed by Harper.
The Gomery inquiry exposed inapprppriate appointees to our judicial system in Quebec...again Liberal partisans.
Wile the VAST MAJORITY of the bureaucracy are good, decent, hardworking indiviuals, there is still some rot that has to weeded out. Unfortnately, this minority tarnishes the majority.

Cliff said...

Mike said;
"Oh they understand them perfectly...they are just covering up and lying. Its what they do."

Is that why we have asked the courts to decide the issue? Quite the cover-up..let the courts see all the facts...Instead the Liberal partisans are afariad to be exposed.
Cover-up...lets me see...we admit what we have done....
We ask the courts to decide?
Everything is out in the open...all receipts and transactions are accounted for and are part of the public record...QUITE THE COVER-UP.
Now lets look at a cover-up...could you document where all the Adscam money went...where is it...any receipts...this was $40,000,000 milion in government money...not Liberal money.
Geez...when the FACTS are laid on the TABLE...things look a little differnt don't they.

Steve V said...

You know they have nothing to say, when they are forced to use Adscam.

Cliff, I have one question for you- do you buy the koolaid by the crate, as a cost saving measure?

You're a giant YAWN.

Cliff said...

Well Steve...
I agree...the Facts are always boring...but they are what they are..
I realize that the thirty second sound bite alleging misconduct when none exists is what excites the liblogs....
But, I'll stick to the boting facts...
And keep in mind adscam was just the tip of the iceberg...there was much...but again they are simply facts...

Steve V said...

cliff

I am actually laughing, reading your reliance on FACTS. The facts are, according to an independent body, headed by Harper appointee's, that the Conservatives circumvented the election laws. If you guys have the FACTS on your side, why is then that the cronies are reduced to talking about nonsensical talk about raid tipoffs and putting into question the institution's credibility. I mean, if you have the FACTS on your side, then there is really no need for such crap, or mentioning other, unrelated scandals- no, you argue the merits of the case at hand. The fact none of you clowns seem capable of a FACTUAL argument on the questions at hand, speaks VOLUMES about your smoke screen of a defence.

The FACTS are your enemy, hence the diversions.

Cliff said...

Clearly you and Elections Canada are fearful of the FACTS.
The Conservatives have put the FACTS on the table and have asked the courts for their direction.
Yrur man at Elections Canada has spent over $500,000 of taxpayer money to resist this and initiated a raid to evade his own direct discovery.
THOSE are the FACTS...we are not afraid to have them heard. This was addressed in a previous comment...again THE FACTS are the FACTS...they don't cahnge from comment to comment...it just that the Liblogs sometimes have difficulty following them.
The fact that there may be misconduct on the part of Elections Canada is just a continuation of the facts...
BUT...again they are still the FACTS...

Ivan said...

Nice Cliff...

Review your history books and find the similarity between all the governments whose first step is to dismantle and discredit institutions.

They're never good governments my friend. And some are worse than others.

knb said...

Cliff Yrur man at Elections Canada has spent over $500,000 of taxpayer money to resist this and initiated a raid to evade his own direct discovery.

You're either being obtuse or you really haven't a clue what you're defeding.

No money was spent 'resisting'. The Con's took EC to court and you know, when that happens you have to respond. The money is being spent on EC defending their ruling.

Mayrand didn't conduct the raid, in fact he was uncomfortable with it's timing.

The raid was initiated by the Commissioner and is completely separate from the lawsuit the Con's brought.

And lastly, what you're bringing up is not addressing what Steve wrote about.

Zorpheous said...

Hey Cliff,

Harpo has been in power for, what 2+ years now,... so why hasn't he launch an investigation in ADScam to reclaim all that money you guys keep Harpo-ing about? Seems like if you guys think there is more more money for the Liberal to pay back, you should go after it, instead of sitting on your collective arses and yammering about it.

Time to put up or shut up. Either Harpo takes the Liberal to task over AdScam and shows that they owe more money, or you guys stop squacking about it.

Harpo tried to bilk the Canadian Tax payer with his illegal "in and Out" plan and Elections Canada caught him on it.

There is no vendetta, that is pure BS from the Harpo noise machine.

Stop crying wolf, cause no believes you fools any more

Steve V said...

"Yrur man at Elections Canada"

You mean Harper's man, right?

“A strong and energetic manager with a proven background in operations and regulatory oversight, Marc Mayrand is particularly well-suited to take on this important position”, said the Prime Minister. “His significant qualifications and experience will benefit all Canadians. I am pleased that he has agreed to be nominated for this important role”, added the Prime Minister.

Cliff said...

Gee...so much to talk about...as mentioned in a previous comments...yes Harper promoted this man...but, he was initially a Liberal appointee...if Harper had passed him over, he would have been accused of partianship...and YES it was probably a mistake promoting this partisan liberal beaurocrat.
Note #2: The RCMP is still investigating Adscam...it is not up to Harper to do this NOR does he have the powers to do so...that Although the Ethics Committee could be looking into this, but the very Partisan Szabo has other fish to fry...none of which are relevent.
But...do keep in mind that white collar crime is very difficult to prove even though there is direct testimony under oath of millions being lost...it just that nobody seems to know where it is...nice cover up.
FACT: As far as the reistance from Elections Canada, lets put the facts on the table, clearly there is resistance...this raid happened (1) day before discoveries...co-incidental...that would be putting your head in the sand.
FACT: Rather the walk down the street for the court order...Elections Canada went Judge shopping in Toronto...presumably looking for a liberal friendly judge.
FACT: $500,000...why? If there position is that strong..let the court decide and decide quickly...It is pretty straight forward unless their in misconduct on behalf of Elections Canada....then I guess one resists.
FACT: If the facts are on their side...why the Media strategy from Elections Canada. This should be a non-partisan agency unconcerned about the media.
FACT: Why was the media and the Liberal party tipped off on the raid?

And finally...this is and never was about "discrediting" an instituition...this is about fairness...however, if these instituitions have become partisan because of past liberal meddling, it is imperative that they be weeded out.
One only has to look around the world to see many dysfunctional governments due to political interference. Surely the Gomery inquiry has taught us a lesson...where even the RCMP and the Judiciary were implicated.
That is not a true democracy...it may be a Liberal democracy..but it is not in the best interests of Canadians.
AGAIN THE FACTS TELL A DIFFERENT STORY.

Steve V said...

cliff

Just because you keep making the same claims of FACT, it doesn't make them any more persuasive. BTW, can you people think for yourselves, or must you constantly parrot the talking points. You read like a bad version of Pierre, and that's saying something, because he's a bad version of a human being.

Take care.

Ivan said...

FACT: Actually, I find Pierre quite amusing.

Much more so than Cliff.

Blues Clair said...

FACT: The RCMP and Elections Canada were at Conservative HQ a full two hours before Conservative Staffers showed up and the Media didn't arrive until the search was well underway.

FACT: The Conservatives CANNOT run on ethics next election.

FACT: Stephen Harper ain't to happy about that.

Cliff said...

Well Blue Clair...
You have taken your so called Fact from elections Canada...the Real Fact is that the media was there waiting for them...Now...tell me how did that happen...and wht the necessity of a media strategy to cover things up...SO...if you are going to use the word FACT...you should put something truthful after if...only then does it become a fact.....

knb said...

the Real Fact is that the media was there waiting for them

Prove that. With all your facts, you've provided no proof.

Blues Clair said...

Well Cliff, I guess the FACTS from Conservative.ca trump all. Proceed my friend.

Cliff said...

Oh...how short your memory is...the Cameras were in the building showing their entry...it was well publized...but you go the other way for partisan purposes...As the Conservatives have stated from the very beginning...the courts will decide the outcome and the FACTS are Rock Solid...
But, for some reason your pals at Elections Canada seem fearful of the court outcome...or is this simply a diversion for the Fall ELECTION in an effort to restrict Conservative spending now that the Corporate Elites are no longer able to finance the Liberal party....

Blues Clair said...

Yes Cliff... the "Corporate Elites" have nothing to do with the Conservative party of Canada whatsoever... jesus... I'm going to call up one of my pals at Election Canada... to get the facts... the facts on the ground... you talk to Steve's pal Mulroney... and get the facts... as well... and we will compare... our notes together... and see which facts... are indeed... facts...

knb said...

Wrong cliff, there were no shot's of the intial entry, only shot's of subsequent entries, borne out by the fact that the Con responding at the door knew who the guy was and let him in.

I do hope you have the courage to come back here or elsewhere when you guy's lose your case.

I won't expect you to say anything deeper than the courts are liberal too, but it will be worth a laugh.

Honestly, if this is who supports Harper, we have a definite advantage.

Steve V said...

I wonder if he actually thinks his arguments are persuasive?

knb said...

I think he does, but who knows. When people are that delusional, it's a tough call. I guess it's the same thing we see on the Con site.

I know they aren't worth debating, but it's fun debunking nonsense once in a while.

Cliff said...

Now...I'm confident of the courts decision...but since you brought it up....sworn testimony at the Gomery inquiry pointed to the FACT the Liberals were rewarded with Judicial appointments as payoff for their Liberal work...
Clearly Elections Canada was aware of left leaning Justices when they went Judge shopping in Toronto....another FACT.
Now another question...who has appointed more Judges in this country the Jean Chretien...and what did he say about Gomery..."he claimed Gomery was biased against him" is that any for a former PM to act....oh well...I guess he wasn't one of his friendly appointees...anyway he did find a Liberal friendly judge on his appeal...
Now before making any outrageous claims...the Conservative party does want accountability of judges...they are in favour of a screening process...the Liberal Party is against both of these policies yet they are concerned about each and every appointee by the Conservatives.
At present, when a judge is appointed he is there until retirement regardless of his actions from the bench...there is no accountability...nor are the Liberals in favour of this accountability...now why is this...are they fearful of losing the predominent left leaning courts...why do they now complain so much about appointements...there is a reason...they are trying to maintain a Liberal bench....
AGAIN too many FACTS...but they are FACTS....

Cliff said...

You just gotta LOVE THE FACTS...
HARD to argue...so the name calling starts...Liberalism at its best

Steve V said...

"HARD to argue...so the name calling starts"

Cliff, you're not arguing anything, you're just throwing dirt, hoping something would stick. You're arguing like a idiot, not our fault for noticing. You're just lucky I don't have the IQ comment filter on today. Now shoo...

knb said...

Okay, yes, he really does believe this junk.

We're lucky he votes for Harper. This is who votes for Harper. Astonishing. Harper wouldn't recognise a fact, in public, if it slapped him in the face.

Apparently cliff doesn't either.

Steve V said...

It just kills me that the REAL story here is who was at the raid, not what the raid was about or anything. It's so nonsensical, and this character wants to argue FACTS. We are talking about in and out, but the REAL story is adscam, and this guy is arguing on merits of the issue. Did he ever actually address anything, other than the "everbody does it" Pierre line? Not on FACT that is relevant to the accusations, which is the real kicker.

I tend to mock more and more now, because in all honestly its all a colossal bore. Who cares.

knb said...

Not to mention the FACT that the ad's associated with AdScam ended effectively in 1999.

That wand is becoming a bit fragile. Wave it around much more and it breaks apart.

The 'Idiots Ball' Steve. It's frankly amazing.

Steve V said...

"Not to mention the FACT that the ad's associated with AdScam ended effectively in 1999."

The sad part, they like to criticize about people focusing in on scandals coming to light NOW, yet they have no qualms pulling out ancient history at every turn. I don't blame them I suppose, after all their thrust was never about ideas, it was always about the "dirty Liberals", which explains their intellectual bankruptcy now.

Scott Tribe said...

Cliff is making "wilson" look really good as a Con troll... and that's not a compliment to Cliff when I say that.

JimmE said...

I can hardly wait to get back to Canada!!
Steve, what I love about your blog is it is (mostly) respectful - even when folks who don't fully agree with you participate. It is really too bad when a Ditto Head partizan LURKER (sorry for the name calling) takes the discussion to a low point.
Cliff: (were you on CHEERS?)
You may not know this, so I shall be patient, but when one jumps to conclusions, & makes statements without supporting documentation these are not called FACTS (just 'cause you put them in Caps) or Romulans, ('cause they're evil) or even Conspiracies, these semi lliterate statements; even here in Colorado, are generally referred to as OPINIONS.
Cliff, (if that is REALLY is your name) you need to know this, Tim & Tina Horton look at the In-&-Out scandal & say: "You all suck!"
FACT (not some opinion I pulled out of my A$$) My Former-SOCRED-theReformParty-is-too-leftwing-Mother-in-Law in Calgary will not vote for STEVE in the next election. She tells me she will go to the polls & refuse her ballot. So tell that to MOTHER.
Gently now, Cliff, Gently! Generally if one changes the subject your point is lost. (I take it you're not as erudite as the folks who briefed the press about Ad-Scam) But, since you brought up AdScam as a defense you must wither the contrast.
AdScam: Crooks on the periphery of the Liberal Party taking advantage of the system for THEIR personal gain.
In-&-Out: Alleged - by trusted members of the Bureaucracy (the PM trusts them) that the Tory party organized a scheme to circumvent the election laws in place at the time of the election.
This is cheque fraud vs WATERGATE. Both wrong. Both illegal, one is large dollars, & small outcome. The other is smaller dollars, but POLITICALLY NEFARIOUS, & CUTS AT THE ROOTS OF OUR DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPALS & IS (if proven to be true) THE HEIGHT OF HYPOCRISY! Especially given the disingenuous nature of the Tory ad campaign at the time; oh, that BTW, this scheme (if proven) would have helped to purchase more of these ironic (at best) ad buys.
Cliff, you really need to go back to HQ & ask K.A.O.S.S. for more & better instructions. Better still, go back to high school (like, grade 10 and some stuff!) to learn about the nuance of discourse.

Mike said...

Ha ha, Cliff is funny, He thinks I'm a liberal partisan.

LOL...funny stuff man, keep it up!