Oh, I'm sure they'll just brush this aside as "old news."Q: Will this resonate with the average Canadian?We can hope so, and it helps to have a reminder that Harper would have had Canada mixed up in that mess.
And where was Dion when this, er, "gotcha bomb" was dropped? Who is the REAL leader of the LPC? What does the bottom of the barrel look like Mr. Rae?This absolutle non-story will be forgotten in a day, if that.
Forgotten in in a day? That's what you fellas said about In and Out, Maxime Bernier, Mulroney...This is a good reminder of one decision (and a big one at that) that the Liberals got right and it ties Harper to Bush, again.
Wow. One of the blithering idiots on Hunter's blog, posted that Bob Rae had rolled this out somewhere and of course dismissed it as some lefty nonsense. But this is either a blatant case of plagiarism showing how truly inept the cons are, or worse yet, illustrates that maybe this worldwide movement is truly orchestrated....
lycan:Short answer: Mr. Dion is in debate prep.The Liberals are showing the advantage of having a strong team. While the leaders will be spending all of their time getting ready for the debates the other capable members of the Liberals team will be grabbing hold of the early day news cycles with announcements like this.As for a non-story we will see but I bet with none of the other parties doing much today this story will make it to a prominent place in the evening news tonight.
remember - Rae is the foreign affairs critic for the Liberals...and he was doing a speech today....5 years is NOT that long ago.
Copying Suzuki's plan, appropriating the name of a business for their own enviornmental policy, the Clarity Act we could go on. How loud does Rae really want to yell about pot when the Liberal kettle is so black? If these little attempts at "gotcha" moments are the final extent of the Liberals, then their campaign really is in a downward spiral.
Wow the video is very clever and it brings up the subject that Harper does not want brought up too, viz., his support for the Iraq war. Score one for the Liberal war room.
Iraq: Hundreds of thousand of Iraqi citizens dead. Millions of refugees, billions of Dollars lost, thousands of American soldiers killed, illegal. And you want to contrast that with Suzuki?Shit storm, I suspect. Goodbye Quebec.
lycanWhat an irrelevant hack you are. Maybe it will be forgotten for a day, but it's the only election story this day :) Kudos to the Liberal strategists.And besides, you really don't deal with the facts here- why was Stephen Harper quoting verbatum from another foreign leader? Does it speak to an international co-ordinated effort from pro-Iraq war politicians? Does Harper gets his marching orders from abroad? Quit confusing the issue, and deal with the substance here.
Hide the chairs...steve will be kickin some today...granny
"We can hope so, and it helps to have a reminder that Harper would have had Canada mixed up in that mess."The same could be said about Paul Martin. He was DYING to have canada join the Iraq War and was shitting bricks over Chretien's decision.
Remember that Schreiber has claimed (and documented by Stevie Cameron in her book about the Mulroney years) that it was German money that helped depose of Joe Clark and helped elect Mulroney to the PC leadership.Now it appears that on an issue as important as our foreign policy, foreign interests are again involved. Harper, if this video is true (I suppose Rae could have doctored it -- has this defence been used yet?), seems to be taking his cues from Bush. Interesting how Harper/Howard are heard emphasizing the existence of weapons of mass destruction which Bush himself had since acknowledged he was wrong/misled. I agree with the Cons ad: Stand up for Canada. Vote ABC.
You flail a speech from five years ago when there are important issues like the economy dominating the election scene, and you want to talk about substance? I'M the one that is irrelevant? LOLBy the way, you might want to tell your dear "leader" Dion that if he is going to scandal monger in desperation, he could at least, you know, try to get it right - However, Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion later called for Harper to be expelled from the House of Commons over the affair, in which he said Harper "plagiarized George W. Bush about the Iraq war" in a telling way."Wrong country, wrong leader Mr. Dion. But you already know about being a wrong leader, don't you.Oh, and by the way, if you're going to throw the "international co-ordinated effort from pro-Iraq war politicians" out there, you mightwant to talk to Iggy. I believe he might have something, um, irrelevant to say on the matter :D - http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/14/magazine/14WWLN.html?ex=1222920000&en=e66de1aa3ff7996b&ei=5070
Gee, all I see are headlines and newscasts starting with "Harper in hot water", but you keep going if it makes you feel better.
Will the average voter remember what Iggy was talking about yesterday, hoping it would have traction? Nope, didn't think so. And in the long run, this interesting little story won't have any legs either, just like all the other faux scandals brought up before the election, and the latest pathetic attempts to do the same while its going on.Liberals are fleeing their ridiculous policies like the Green Shift, and the fact that their leader, who is being shunted to the back, can't even get an attempt to scandal monger right. This latest distraction won't change that. But by all means, as you say, "keep going if it makes you feel better". :D
lycanThis is why your commentary is irrelevant, and why I don't really care. You praise me the other day, because I happened to show some objectivity, and the ironic thing, you've never demonstrated that yourself. You're just a Con hack, no matter what happens, you spin it relentlessly, it's just nonsense.Go way now, you just dumb down the conversation...
Fine, then Steve, have it your way. You want to talk about me spinning things, but you're right. This is a fantastic line of attack the very day after the global economic system takes a pounding. Let us all pay attention to this riveting story. I'm sure people will gaze in wide wonder at this powerful moment instead of worrying about their RRSP's, investments, their jobs, or wether or not they will ever get to own a home. This is a fantastic use of the Liberal's narowing time, energy, and meager resources.So have fun dissecting this into oblivion; I'm out. By the way, Tim Powers has a topic at the G&M on Iggy's issues with plagiarism as well. If your party really wants to open this can of worms when there are so many more important issues your party could be concentrating on, then by all means, they can have at it.
Lycan: I admire your loyalty, but you just got your ass kicked. It goes to Harper's character, which is why we specifically hate this current bunch of Cons. This story might last a day, but the perception will linger. Mulroney despite his faults, you could admire to some degree. Harper just makes my stomach churn.Steve:The Nanos numbers continue to be steady as she goes. I think voters have parked their vote, until after the debate. Then we will see some hardening...
lycanAsk yourself one SIMPLE question, and it's all that matters- are the Conservatives happy with today's media narrative?? Exactly :)Everything else is just noise...
So Steve, it all boils down to wether or not the Tories are happy with something desperate the Liberals did. THAT is the narrative for today. Not the economy, or any of the other real issues the country is struggling with. Wow. As for the MSM and how they are covering this, it wasn't too long ago that you were complaining about the same media not giving Dion the time of day. Now all of a sudden this story makes them your best friend. I am willing to concede the point on the arts issue, but this is more than just desperate. Its absolutley pathetic.
Yes, the issues and the notion of pathetic. Like delaying your environmental plan until after the election. Like telling Canadians about a tax on everything, when your own data suggests an economic hit with your plan. Like claiming to be a champion on crime, when the expert you cite says your NUTS. Like ducking a substantive debate on poverty. Like ducking an opportunity to sit down and take voters questions on the National. Like running juvenile ads for two years, never ONCE offering anything of SUBSTANCE or VISION. Like having the RCMP keep the media away, for fear you might have to be held accountable. Yes, yes, the Libs are pathetic, it's all about the economy, sure, sure. It's all about hiding and distracting, so you can pull a fast one over Canadians.Pathetic all right.
lycanWhat about this issue, talk about PATHETIC.Crickets.
Wow, CNN has picked up on the story, nothing to see here. Also Australian media, but whatever...
I was going to respond to Lycan, but your last post did a fine job of exposing The CPC desperation and Lycan as a hypocrite.That said, while this story will likely put the CPC off message for a couple days, obviously the economy is the biggest issue right now - though I am confident the LPC know that.It is nice to remind people that linking Harper and Bush is not something the LPC made up though...
Lycan:You just got your hand caught in the cookie jar and you still want to pretend like it is nothing? YOU GOT PUNKED, stop making it worse and move on. The MSM love a good story, we just hated the fact that they had the election decided on Jan 1, 2007.
"Speech writer resigns from campaign after Liberals reveal much of a 2003 speech on Iraq by Harper was cribbed from then Australian prime minister John Howard."As a manager myself, I am ultimately responsible for the actions of my employees. When is Harper going to start being accountable for the actions of his employees? I am starting to lose count of how many times we have gone through this with the Cons, not only through this election, but through the life of this government.
gayleThis story has small legs, the debates will snuff it out, but another war room staffer resigning is anything but a good day for Harper.
Steve: Depends. It probably isn't going to get earned media forever......but it'll make a dandy ad, don't you think? Nobody will care about the "staffers". Just say "Harper delivered the same speech" and you've got a winner.
Lycan's hilarious, by the way. Smarter trolls, please.
Louise was over at my blog trying hard to spin this as a concerted effort by Howard and Harper. Too bad for her the Conservative writer fessed up.
You know what says it all today? They had all their heavy hitters on the airwaves in damage control, and they look worried, even acknowledged "embarrassing". I suspect people are digging into all the speeches this guy has written for Harper, and there could be more...BTW, the Liberal website is off the charts with hits today, I mean off the charts.
"Lycan's hilarious, by the way. Smarter trolls, please."Is there such a thing?
I agree that on issues of foreign policy, we need to make our own decisions based on our own policies not following any other leader or country. The one up side is at least it is not Bush, which would have been even more damaging. And I should note this is not just a left vs. right issue, this is whether a leader can make decisions on their own rather than copying someone else. I would oppose Dion copying one of Obama's speech to the same extent even though I like Obama.Finally, even if it was a dumb political staffer, the buck stops at the top. Most CEOs have other help them write their speeches, but if a CEO made a plagarized speech to a company they were hoping to win as a client and that company found out it was plagarized, they would not get their business regardless of the excuse. And if the company performed below expectations in that quarter, the CEO would take the greatest blame. Any good leader screens those who are writing their speeches and would at least read it before making it and if they had a clue what was going on, they would have at least been somewhat suspicious and even if they didn't know exactly what was happening.If Harper wants to get the Iraq thing off his shoulder, he would be best to just come out and say he did support the war, but was wrong and admit he his learned from his mistake. People might have some respect for this, but I highgly doubt this will happen.
I agree this will be probably forgotten by election day, but each day the Tories have to play defensive and each day the Liberals are on the offensive is a win for the Liberals. If they can just keep on doing this, they might pull off a surprise.
milesForeign policy has been the forgotten issue this election. People are generally uncomfortable with our standing at the moment, if this gets that file into the mix, it's a net positive for the Libs.
Steve and Lycan: trouble in paradise?Seriously though, where do they get all these old HoC debate videos? Because they're so much more effective than press releases that no one reads. I assume someone in the Lib war room has access to these types of things, while the rest of us do not (or just don't know where to look).In any case, putting the focus on Iraq with a relevant pretext to do so? Well done Liberal staffers - who ever dredged this up is deserving of a raise. But don't you forget folks, Harper's playing chess... :)
Steve V - I agree Canadians are generally not too happy with the Tories on foreign policy and I suspect this is a plus for the Liberals. I guess the problem is the economy affects people more directly than foreign policy. After all in Australia and Britain, they joined the Iraq war which over 70% of the public disapproved of, yet still re-elected both governments so while it hurts the Tories, I think their economic policy if we could simply get the message across Liberals are better economic managers is probably more damaging. Otherwise foreign policy might stop a majority, but I think economic policy is the area we have to go to win outright.
milesAgreed on the economy. This angle just reminds people of their unease. I must say, I saw the split screen again on the news, and Harper looks ridiculous.
Brilliant move. It doesn't matter how old it is because Chretien keeping Canada out of Iraq was a watershed moment that most Canadians across the country rejoiced in. In fact, Paul Martin's war room should have been smart enough to play thin in two elections. It might have helped stop Harper dead in his tracks far more effectively.Nonetheless, better late than never. There is also ample evidence that Harper has been closely aligned with Howard, including most recently, recruiting some Aussie pollster expert to do incredible demographic number crunching.The more we make Harper ANGRY, the more he exposes himself.
If Harper is willing to take his foreign policy lead from foreign leaders on a matter so fundamentally important as whether to go to war or not, it raises the question "What else would Harper take from foreigners regarding Canadian policy, including economic policy?", especially if smart war roomers consider asking it aloud in the hearing of media mikes and/or in ads. After all, Harper is a well known strong follower of the same economic theories that the Straussians in America follow, the same people that have been running the US Executive Branch for the past eight years and who are now being branded with the main responsibility for the current economic woes in the financial markets.I would also love to see people being reminded of Harper's letter in the WSJ apologizing to Americans for Canada's Iraq decision and claiming that the majority of Canadians supported and were with the Americans in spirit, I suspect that would also not go down too well. That was one of the most offensive acts I have seen ANY Opposition leader take regarding foreign policy in my lifetime regarding the foreign policy decisions taken in the Canadian Parliament, and it was clearly bootlicking at GWB's, Blair's, AND Howard's feet regarding Iraq. People used to believe in the idea that one does not take domestic differences abroad, and I suspect that regarding the Iraq War decision that would still apply to many if reminded of this disgusting act, especially daring to claim the majority was with Harper and the Bushies when that was never the case regarding Iraq.I am preparing to write a post soon dealing with the fact that Harper is clearly running a Republican campaign and government despite operating in a Parliamentary system of government, because I think it shows exactly why he is so fundamentally dangerous to the future of this nation and the institutions we have built that the vast majority of Canadians clearly support and agree with. When I say Republican btw I do not merely mean in terms of the GOP (although that is an element too) but literally, that he acts as if he is running a Republican governmental structure as opposed to a Parliamentarian one. It really explains his actions both as PM and in how he has run this campaign. I hope to have it done by the end of the week, I haven't been doing much to date in part because I really haven't been in the best of health for the past while and it takes a lot out of me to write these kinds of posts at Saundrie. Until then...(I am also posting this in another thread here tonight, I normally do not do this but I want to make sure it is seen so I will add it to the more recent thread dealing with this controversy regarding the speeches, I hope you will forgive me for this rare cut and paste action on my part Steve V)
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