Negative ads don't work only if they don't tell the truth. There is nothing untrue in this or any of the Liberal ads I've seen to date. They have to be strong to dislodge the two years worth of untruth infiltrated into the Canadian psyche by Harper. As long as they stick on the truth, they'll have a greater chance of hitting the mark.
Did you see the BushHarper.com note at the end of the ad, go there, the opening flash (?) is funny. And Gayle, it's accurate. It needs to be told, it's the time to tell it. There was a poll about a week and a half ago that noted that Canadians don't like ideologues, since then the Lib ads have started to raise the stakes on that issue. It's a stake that will go right through the vampire's heart.
I think it is a good one too. I also like the part on Afghanistan since that was in many ways meant to blunt the idea he was a Bush lackey and too hawkish and this just tears a strip off this.
Yeah it's good but the actor's voice near the end is scare mongering. "Do you really want to find out!!!?" Holy crap! I mean, it's true, but it scared the hell out of me. I didn't even register it was a Liberal ad just that I was freaking scared! So, not good on the ending.
I like the ad. Find the website a little goofy, but I like the ad.
I think the "Do you really want more of this?" is snarky but works. I really think it does. It is the most direct way to tap into the discomfort many still have about Harper. It is like we elected a robot or something so might as well ask the obvious question.
Off topic question, but what do you think of the debate committee eliminating the opening and closing leader statements in order to ask more economy-related questions? Does this help or hurt Dion - or no difference?
I think it helps Dion because it eliminates the ability of Harper to weave his own fictional narrative bookends (which he is quite good at doing though it makes me cringe each time I hear him re-write history). Dion and the other parties still have ample opportunity to hit him on details related to the questions throughout the debate.
I am sort of surprised they eliminated both opening and closing statements. I could understand eliminating the opening, but it seems strange to get rid of both.
In the end, though, I think it's funny because clearly what Harper really wanted was to eliminate questions on other topics. As it is all the topics will still be covered, they'll just be more on the economy.
I think the more they get time they have to get into it, advantage Dion. The opening and closing, the scripted shit isn't his bag, and I actually turned around on Dion when I heard him speak to the economy, he has a real sense of the market conditions, how government creates the environment. He might surprise.
Hey, did anyone watch Brison kick Flaherty's ass in a CBC debate tonight. The audience was selected based on current Ontario polls percentage, at the end Brison had over 50% of the votes. This was a debate on the ECONOMY, and Brison, using our talking points, won the day against the FINANCE MINISTER. Good stuff.
And, that's why this works. The speech reminds people, this ad plays off it, and while negative, people can see a common theme. I like it too, because it shows were moving in combination, there's an overall coherence on this point. Release the split screen, which I saw again and it's rips right into Harper's credibility, now the Bush angle in the same pocket, it's shrewd messaging.
As much as I hold my nose each time I read it, I tend to take a nightly look at the G&M Strategic Counsel "Battleground Ridings" poll just to see how they spin their bizarre little poll.
I've noticed the numbers have been looking much less "conservative friendly" recently and was curious how it was playing out since the tide is turning mildly.
Well, low and behold, IT DOES NOT EXIST TONIGHT!
Even when you click on the specific link for it, it instead brings up the new Strategic Counsel "comprehensive poll" which - surprise - shows Conservatives riding high and Liberals sinking since the election began.
But when you drill down in the numbers, the only real difference is in Ontario, where they show conservatives with a 13-point lead (43 - 30). They even tacitly admit that everywhere else is pretty much the same as the election.
So, Strategic Counsel - suspect already - mysteriously "drops" their own questionable creation and "changes the subject" to numbers they like better on a new poll they threw together over the past couple of nights.
It's getting disgusting out there, I tell you. Who are these bozos at Strategic Counsel? If their biases showed any more obviously, we'd have to slap an R rating on their poll results.
joseph, just a note from a 905 riding lost in 2006. We are now into non target polls, (ie polls that Tories do better in). I had more Liberals, & leaning Liberals than Won't say/undicided & Tories combinded tonight. Perhaps it was just those 4 streets; elections are funny that way, & as this is the crossover poll, perhaps we came close last time- but I dunno. Tonight was better than some nights in strong polls two weeks ago. Something is happening, I don't know what it is, but something is happening. See what happens after the debate.
I sort of thought they went to these wildly volatile battleground polls (I read them too, but they seem all over the place) because they blew the national race so badly last time. For some reason, I don't even bat an eye at those numbers tonight, they frankly look goofy.
I know one thing, Harper has a lot of pressure in this French debate, the Cons are tanking in Quebec, and the second choice opportunities are evaporating. A lot different vibe than just 10 days ago, it's almost a firm up what you have mentality now.
I'm very keen on the debates. Primarily I just want Harper to have to address reality instead of the bubble he occupies most of the time so my expectations are low. But I am hopeful.
One thing I don't quite get with the current crop of ads is the lack of addressing the actual issues of Harper during his time as PM.
Not a word on the actual scandals or miscues they have stumbled on time and again.
It would be nice to see some of the same vein of ads in that regard - Nuclear Safety, Food Safety, In and Out, Manual on Disrupting Parliament - to name a few.
But perhaps this is where the ad campaign is leading.
I do like the quality of them, and I like the consistent theme. Hopefully there can be some traction after the debates.
Hey, they could also use Harper's own words...and his "true" feelings about Canada and his US envy:
"I was asked to speak about Canadian politics. It may not be true, but it's legendary that if you're like all Americans, you know almost nothing except for your own country. Which makes you probably knowledgeable about one more country than most Canadians."
- Conservative leader Stephen Harper, then vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, in a June 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing American think tank.
"Your country [the USA], and particularly your conservative movement, is a light and an inspiration to people in this country and across the world."
- Conservative leader Stephen Harper, then vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, in a June 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing American think tank.
"I don't know all the facts on Iraq, but I think we should work closely with the Americans."
- Stephen Harper, Report Newsmagazine, March 25th 2002. As it turned out, Harper wasn't the only one who didn't know all the facts.
...and, about judgment - he decided we should without any questions?
21 comments:
Not sure I like this. It might be coming on a bit too strong.
Fair enough, but I think it's time for strong. Today planted this angle, I think the ad is complimentary. Besides, it's true.
It's now or never time.
Negative ads don't work only if they don't tell the truth. There is nothing untrue in this or any of the Liberal ads I've seen to date. They have to be strong to dislodge the two years worth of untruth infiltrated into the Canadian psyche by Harper. As long as they stick on the truth, they'll have a greater chance of hitting the mark.
Did you see the BushHarper.com note at the end of the ad, go there, the opening flash (?) is funny.
And Gayle, it's accurate. It needs to be told, it's the time to tell it. There was a poll about a week and a half ago that noted that Canadians don't like ideologues, since then the Lib ads have started to raise the stakes on that issue.
It's a stake that will go right through the vampire's heart.
That said, the actors' voice at the end of the Iraq-Bush ad is way over the top. It's goofy.
I think it is a good one too. I also like the part on Afghanistan since that was in many ways meant to blunt the idea he was a Bush lackey and too hawkish and this just tears a strip off this.
We had our slight uptick in daily tracking polls when we started the "truth" ads. We must continue to play the "truth" ads...
Love the truth ads... Must have more truth ads.
Yeah it's good but the actor's voice near the end is scare mongering. "Do you really want to find out!!!?" Holy crap! I mean, it's true, but it scared the hell out of me. I didn't even register it was a Liberal ad just that I was freaking scared! So, not good on the ending.
I went to the bushharper site and much prefer the economy ad.
Hopefully they both work.
If it were 20 years ago, they would have created the website Mulroneyreagan.com. Same old tedious nonsense from the Liberals.
Actually, you're tedious :)
Steve, be nice to RA, his dear leader had a rough day.
I like the ad. Find the website a little goofy, but I like the ad.
I think the "Do you really want more of this?" is snarky but works. I really think it does. It is the most direct way to tap into the discomfort many still have about Harper. It is like we elected a robot or something so might as well ask the obvious question.
Off topic question, but what do you think of the debate committee eliminating the opening and closing leader statements in order to ask more economy-related questions? Does this help or hurt Dion - or no difference?
I think it helps Dion because it eliminates the ability of Harper to weave his own fictional narrative bookends (which he is quite good at doing though it makes me cringe each time I hear him re-write history). Dion and the other parties still have ample opportunity to hit him on details related to the questions throughout the debate.
I am sort of surprised they eliminated both opening and closing statements. I could understand eliminating the opening, but it seems strange to get rid of both.
In the end, though, I think it's funny because clearly what Harper really wanted was to eliminate questions on other topics. As it is all the topics will still be covered, they'll just be more on the economy.
The purpose of negative ads is not to make someone like your party, it is to make someone dislike one of the other guys.
As long as the ads are accurate, or present a believable opinion, they often work.
joseph
I think the more they get time they have to get into it, advantage Dion. The opening and closing, the scripted shit isn't his bag, and I actually turned around on Dion when I heard him speak to the economy, he has a real sense of the market conditions, how government creates the environment. He might surprise.
Hey, did anyone watch Brison kick Flaherty's ass in a CBC debate tonight. The audience was selected based on current Ontario polls percentage, at the end Brison had over 50% of the votes. This was a debate on the ECONOMY, and Brison, using our talking points, won the day against the FINANCE MINISTER. Good stuff.
ed
And, that's why this works. The speech reminds people, this ad plays off it, and while negative, people can see a common theme. I like it too, because it shows were moving in combination, there's an overall coherence on this point. Release the split screen, which I saw again and it's rips right into Harper's credibility, now the Bush angle in the same pocket, it's shrewd messaging.
Oh, I just had to share this.
As much as I hold my nose each time I read it, I tend to take a nightly look at the G&M Strategic Counsel "Battleground Ridings" poll just to see how they spin their bizarre little poll.
I've noticed the numbers have been looking much less "conservative friendly" recently and was curious how it was playing out since the tide is turning mildly.
Well, low and behold, IT DOES NOT EXIST TONIGHT!
Even when you click on the specific link for it, it instead brings up the new Strategic Counsel "comprehensive poll" which - surprise - shows Conservatives riding high and Liberals sinking since the election began.
But when you drill down in the numbers, the only real difference is in Ontario, where they show conservatives with a 13-point lead (43 - 30). They even tacitly admit that everywhere else is pretty much the same as the election.
So, Strategic Counsel - suspect already - mysteriously "drops" their own questionable creation and "changes the subject" to numbers they like better on a new poll they threw together over the past couple of nights.
It's getting disgusting out there, I tell you. Who are these bozos at Strategic Counsel? If their biases showed any more obviously, we'd have to slap an R rating on their poll results.
joseph, just a note from a 905 riding lost in 2006. We are now into non target polls, (ie polls that Tories do better in). I had more Liberals, & leaning Liberals than Won't say/undicided & Tories combinded tonight. Perhaps it was just those 4 streets; elections are funny that way, & as this is the crossover poll, perhaps we came close last time- but I dunno. Tonight was better than some nights in strong polls two weeks ago. Something is happening, I don't know what it is, but something is happening.
See what happens after the debate.
joseph
I sort of thought they went to these wildly volatile battleground polls (I read them too, but they seem all over the place) because they blew the national race so badly last time. For some reason, I don't even bat an eye at those numbers tonight, they frankly look goofy.
I know one thing, Harper has a lot of pressure in this French debate, the Cons are tanking in Quebec, and the second choice opportunities are evaporating. A lot different vibe than just 10 days ago, it's almost a firm up what you have mentality now.
Interesting feedback, Jimme.
I'm very keen on the debates. Primarily I just want Harper to have to address reality instead of the bubble he occupies most of the time so my expectations are low. But I am hopeful.
One thing I don't quite get with the current crop of ads is the lack of addressing the actual issues of Harper during his time as PM.
Not a word on the actual scandals or miscues they have stumbled on time and again.
It would be nice to see some of the same vein of ads in that regard - Nuclear Safety, Food Safety, In and Out, Manual on Disrupting Parliament - to name a few.
But perhaps this is where the ad campaign is leading.
I do like the quality of them, and I like the consistent theme. Hopefully there can be some traction after the debates.
Hey, they could also use Harper's own words...and his "true" feelings about Canada and his US envy:
"I was asked to speak about Canadian politics. It may not be true, but it's legendary that if you're like all Americans, you know almost nothing except for your own country. Which makes you probably knowledgeable about one more country than most Canadians."
- Conservative leader Stephen Harper, then vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, in a June 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing American think tank.
"Your country [the USA], and particularly your conservative movement, is a light and an inspiration to people in this country and across the world."
- Conservative leader Stephen Harper, then vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, in a June 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing American think tank.
"I don't know all the facts on Iraq, but I think we should work closely with the Americans."
- Stephen Harper, Report Newsmagazine, March 25th 2002. As it turned out, Harper wasn't the only one who didn't know all the facts.
...and, about judgment - he decided we should without any questions?
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