So seriously is that threat being taken that former prime minister Jean Chretien has been called in to try and broker a deal between outgoing leader Stephane Dion and the three leadership candidates to see if an new leader could be crowned in time to fight a snap election.
Alrighty then.
On the coalition front, this from NNW:
National Newswatch has learned that the federal opposition parties are considering the idea of forming what can technically be described as a coalition government - in the event the Tory government is brought down next week.
NDP Leader, Jack Layton has cancelled a scheduled trip to the B.C. in order to participate in discussions.
Discussions, I see.
I think it safe to say, that today represents the biggest miscalculation these characters have made (if I'm not mistaken, in chess they call it a BLUNDER), and I'm glad to say my earlier want has come true:
When confronted by a smug bully, the required response is obvious, you coil back and smack em square in the jaw.
And, now the snifling bully retreats...
41 comments:
lol. I'll check back with you on Monday when 20 or so Liberals are out with the flu.
Harper will back down. The GG would allow a coalition government before another election, and there's no way Harper would let power slip from him over something this insignificant.
If the Liberal, NDP and Bloc working association decided to table a comprehensive stimulus package (along the lines in my blog, perhaps), then the Harper government is doomed on Monday - how can it withdraw it basic program?
The do-nothing, hope-it-all-goes-away-so-that-we-do-not-have-to-have-deficits program ...
The Libs are not backing down and if necessary it looks like Iggy will be appointed by the executive as leader. If this crazy scenario takes place then it is a risk/reward situation for the Libs. They can prove their worth again with Iggy at the helm or suffer at the hands of the voters if things go sour. It might also be the most quick and dirty way to solve the leadership question and save a lot of dough in the process. You could then pacify Rae by appointing him to foreign affairs and make Dion enviro minister. McCallum for finance.
Would it be possible for the Libs to form a coalition with the Dips, but also have the Bloc in their back pocket, would the GG go for that? You might have to give Layton and Mulcair a portfolio.
There doesn't seem to me to be any reason for an election, the parliamentary convention of the GG offering the government to the opposition after the defeat of the government by a vote of non-confidence would avoid the expense of an election that no one wants. How the Libs sort out their leadership issues is up to the Party's constitutional leeways. If Dion has to go then he must, if he doesn't then let it be him.
I think the libs here need to think what a working accord is. It means sharing power which means cabinet seats for their accord partners.
That is what the folks are supporting, and not just being the handmaidens for the libs.
Hopefully, we are all on the same page here or it will not work.
Your thoughts?
liberazzi said...You might have to give Layton and Mulcair a portfolio.
The libs are not really in a position of power as this accord is based on shared power. Shared power is such as that no-one is in the position to "give" which is higher value position.
One needs to think differently here, or this goes down the tubes.
The GG could give the Libs power soley on the assurances that the Dips and Bloc will support them. Meaning that the Dips would have a say in legislation, but not necessarily have a seat in cabinet.
You might have to give Layton and Mulcair a portfolio.
You keep thinking that. Yup. But for the slow of mind among you, here's the math:
37/114=32%.
A cabinet is about 30 ministers give or take.
So the NDP gets 10 Ministers.
Can any of you Libs list 10 SANE Dippers? Jack, Olivia, Mulcair, Pat Martin, ummm, umm,
After that you have 6 wingnuts like Libby Davies.
And you haven't even asked the price that the Bloc is going to demand. Good luck with that ;-)
The Cons are not going to let it get to this out of shear spite some misguided attempt to cripple the Liberal party are they?
The Bloc cannot be a part of a coalition for obvious reasons, but what will their price be?
Will the Dips scuttle this if they are held out of cabinet?
Jean Chrétien being called in ? Why doesn't he come back!
"Under the Liberal constitution, the party's national executive, in consultation with caucus, has emergency power to appoint a successor should the leader resign or die."
And yes, the main opposition party could form the government alone under constitutional custom, but it would work better if cabinet was formed through some sort of proportional representation, hell put May into the cabinet, I wouldn't even mind of Duceppe was given a post, and I think the spin can be handled.
Since we are all speculating here...
There will be no coalition without giving the NDP seats at the cabinet - and more than one or two token seats at that (though I do not necessarily think they need 10 - just as I do not think the cabinet need be that big).
I do not get the impression Duceppe would ask for a cabinet seat.
You risk giving the NDP credibility by giving them seats in cabinet.
"lol. I'll check back with you on Monday when 20 or so Liberals are out with the flu."
It's that arrogance that's got you here.
"Conservative MPs seemed thunderstruck late Thursday by the possibility that their second term might be coming to an abrupt end. Piling onto a parliamentary shuttle bus, they were heard incredulously asking opposition MPs if they're serious about forming a coalition."
Hehe.
Yes, there could indeed be a coalition with the NDP and Bloc. Or.... maybe 10 Liberals who think that is a ridiculous idea cross the floor to give the Conservatives a majority with the two independents.
That makes a lot more sense than speculating whether the Bloc will be in the "cabinet" or not.
Steve,
Big mess on Parliament Hill.
I think there are 10 or so moves left to be played. You have identified some of the Liberal moves and your posters have added some others.
I think Harper may have a move or two left as well. Remember, he started this by inserting the poison pill.
The best of times for political junkies, the worst of times for those with ulcers.
Tomm
Why is it ridicules to not let Harper get away with doing nothing but play petty games at a time of crisis?
More importantly Burke is coming to save my other team;) Now the Leafs have an American GM and coach, hmmm...
Won't Libs have to settle the DION issue first. The guy is stepping down in May, or is he? Is there a leadership race, or not? According to Craig Oliver, the Liberal exec is ready to ask Dion to quit.
Chretien's involvement would solve LeBlanc and Rae since they are both his people. But Iggy - not so much.
What are the legal issues here? Can the Liberals ask Chretien to become PM?
The Lib executive has emergency powers to appoint a new leader as long as the existing one resigns or dies. If this crazy situation takes place then Iggy will probably asked to step in because he has the most caucus support, as long as Dion complies.
thanks Steve for seeing the arrogance.
I also want the poster who asked this question is to answer that for him/herself?
Will the Dips scuttle this if they are held out of cabinet?
Remember here, out of 3 opposition parties represented in the House and 4 if one counts the Greens, which party is in the best position to forgo the subsidy?
Next, answer your question.
janfromthebruce,
Wow,
The government hasn't been defeated and already people are drooling over the spoils of a GG asking Dion to form a 3 party coalition.
All three had better be willing to play nice together for some considerable period of time, or else they won't get this sort of opportunity again.
I am waiting for Gilles Duceppe and Jack Layton to become Cabinet Ministers.
Tomm
"Moreover, both the Bloc and NDP have signalled that they wouldn't take part in a coalition if it meant installing Mr. Dion as prime minister."
A sticking point has been resolved. Expect Dion to signal his intention to resign as leader by Monday. If Rae and Leblanc are persuaded to drop out before then, leading to a caucus coronation, Harper is done and dusted.
The chance of Mulcair and Duceppe accepting Ignatieff as PM has increased greatly. I never expected this to happen, but it was not as far fetched as one would have thought days ago.
Harper cant be this insane, so I expect him to blink. I think the opposition has shown that they will not put up with their tactics anymore. Plus, now they have a plan to move forward, if they pull this again before the Libs have a new leader.
And why should the NDP play handmaiden here? I'm being serious. It makes me realize that perhaps some folks are just not that into it if it means having to share power.
Perhaps libs would just like to go it alone. Too bad that some just couldn't move beyond their partisan places.
"Harper cant be this insane, so I expect him to blink."
Has Flaherty ripped the steering wheel off the car? The Grits are calling all the shots, and this includes letting Harper becoming a lame duck PM until the leadership convention.
This is all just too ridiculous! All of this huffing and puffing over political party welfare, an abomination when it was introduced as it is today. The sooner it is gone the better for our democracy.
Any party willing to bring down a government over this will feel the wrath of voters. Gawd, this is an economic update, not a budget. The budget comes a short couple months from now.
I actually wanted to hear Flaherty give his update, but instead we had talking heads and opposition MP's yakking about cuts to their entitlements while Flaherty was still speaking. What a joke.
"You risk giving the NDP credibility by giving them seats in cabinet."
Yes, but there is no other choice. Why would the NDP agree to this without getting seats in Cabinet?
And Burke is a whiney little toad. Good luck with that.
Signed - Oilers fan
You know, it just occurred to me that a coalition government could, at some point, quietly slip in a change to the party financing laws themselves....as in, removing the cap and the ban from receiving donations from corporations and unions.
Well, I can dream, can't I?
Anon at 12:39, pay for cable like other Canadians do. What? Did you expect Harper to beam it to you? For free even? Sheesh!
Why not a coalition government? Frankly, bobble heads versus thinking Canadians who can be seen and heard representing their constituents have it hands-down over any CPC-bot.
As for Dion. He is the best to lead now. Harper has lambasted him to within an inch of his life, rightly or wrongly and every which way, yet Dion still stands. There is no sense in sending a new champion into the Lion's Den. The Old Champ Dion will do quite nicely.
Plus, wouldn't it be sweet? Harper, taking direction from a man he tried so mightily to trash, while knowing that after Dion are other men who will perhaps not be as gentlemanly as M. Dion. Poetic justice, which will fly right over Harper's head anyway but the gesture is what counts.
There is no need to give Harper and his hangers on any fresh meat. Let them recycle puffin poop while Dion tells Canadians what a coalition government can and will do to keep the wolves from the door.
And rat, I take some umbrage of you calling down Libby Davies. She's been a fine representative of many Canadians in her riding and a fine example for women parliamentarians anywhere in the free (to women) world. She's a damn sight better than Harper's winkin'n'blinkin' Geurgis that's for sure. Rona Who? way to bring your women to the party, rat! and ditch'em, looks like.
Coalition government NOW, and many responsible NDP, Lib or Bloc MPs are willing and able to step up for Canada. Reformacons with their talking points need not apply. And if any one of them try to cross the floor I expect to see some full-body contact in the HoC as reasonable people toss them back!
Sincerely,
Just Some Poor Schmuck
Schmuck...i was simply making the point that the economic update was worth hearing in it's entirety, not Iggy the Pretender spinning about his right to feed at the trough before Flaherty finished the first paragraph. Frustrating.
But in hindsight, i realize that its only an update and not an actual budget; so, the real story was in fact Liberal access to party welfare. The only thing they really oppose is standing for something. A party that cannot find financial support among those they seek to govern should not pretend they can govern.
"It's that arrogance that's got you here."
Seriously Kettle, think about that for a bit.
How convenient for Harper - GG is away on an expensive trip to Europe to promote Canadian arts - how frugal, eh?
If Chretien can be unbiased in this, okay. If not, no.
Can the caucus not appoint Chretien as interim leader?
CBC just reported that Ed Broadbent and Chretien are in talks presently.
If the Conservatives back down on the party funding cut, how much do they really lose? For the rest of this Parliament, every time the Liberals abstain (which will happen often because, last week, they were still broke and leaderless), the Conservatives will be able to say that the only thing the Liberals will actually stand up for is a cut in their own money. That's bound to hurt.
Also, Harper's plan for the economy is to stand pat on stimulus for now, rather than running up a big deficit, the way the opposition parties want. Throwing out the funding cut as a potential sacrifice is a way to make that happen.
Restoration of party funding cuts won't change anything. The momentum for coaliton is on.
Yes, it is true that the opposition cannot back down now as it will look like it was strictly over fundraising. I also read where either Goodale or Dion could be interim PMs. If Dion is made PM then it will keep the streak alive of having all but one leader become PM...whatever. Not sure if it is going to get to all this, but it sure is exciting.
"How convenient for Harper - GG is away on an expensive trip to Europe to promote Canadian arts - how frugal, eh?"
I am not sure it is that convenient. If Jean is not around the Chief Justice of the SCC will step in.
Notice that Harper said in his speech that Canadians should write to their MPs. I see some blogs are listing MPs emails and urging Canadians to write to stop the coalition. The Tories are often good at getting people to swarm this way. Seems that the other side will need to do the same, so that in the intervening week the press doesn't start picking up stories of the pro-Harper side dominating.
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