Okay, let's go slow, so we don't lose anybody, even though the concept is simple. See the two darker shades of blue, those are Conservative cabinet ministers and Conservative MP's. Now train your gaze to the red, light blue, yellow and gray colors. You will note the red, light blue, yellow seats outnumber the darker blue seats. Each seat denotes a riding, each seat carries the same weight in a entity we call Parliament. Canadians elect people to sit in those seats, they don't elect governments, they elect a thing called MP's. The above is a situation, called a "minority government", repeat after me, because the term seems to escape some "MINORITY". That means, the actual "majority" of democratically elected officials are not Conservatives, I know hard to believe isn't it.
So, when the red, light blue and yellow guys and gals decide to get together, it translates to a majority of said democratically elected officials and hence it would have the weight to govern, what with representing their constituents and such. You can't really have a power grab, when you had the power to begin with. You can't arrogantly take control, because in totality you always had it, just now, it is being exerted.
It's not the opposition's fault that Conservatives can't add, nor is anyone's fault that the arrogance, political opportunism and delusions prevented a accurate reading of reality. That shit's on you guys, heaps and heaps of reeking dung, completely self-inflicted, entirely and utterly of your voluntary choosing. We aren't witnessing a coup silly souls, we are witnessing an organic expression of democracy in it's purest form. Blame the voters, and beyond that please just keep blaming yourselves and the misguided sense of entitlement.
45 comments:
I like the idea of parties getting together, but the BQ component is very troubling to me. If only it were the Greens (who, obviously, have no seats....) I'd be a lot more supportive.
As it stands, I'm "generally" supportive, but not enthused.
CTV has a story up on a Conservative member taping a NDP caucus meeting where Layton seems to brag about his coalition with the Bloc.
“Because, you couldn’t put three people together in one or three hours. The first part was done a long time ago.” (said Layton in a secretly taped telecon)
So what, Wilson? Politics is a covert and most often a dirty game. You Conservatives of all people should know that very well. It doesn't negate the essence of Steve's post. You have a minority and you don't know how to make it work. Get over yourself.
Your point wilson? How dare Layton play chess!
That's only Harper's game!! OMG OMG!
LOL
What CTV is presenting as new news is old news. Take a look at this article from Nov 19 that talked about ongoing talks between the NDP and Bloc.
http://thetyee.ca/Views/2008/11/19/CoalitionCall/
However, Layton's boasting on the conference call does show how ill suited he is for a position of authority. Too bad that is all there is to work with in standing up to Harper. The opposition does not have a lot of cards to play, as none of them can afford another election so soon, and if forced into one, they will then be penniless if Harper wins again. That is what is so ironic - Harper holds a lot of cards right now, but he is so arrogant and greedy, that he showed his true (and despicable) nature.
Why would a Conservative member tape someone else's phone call. Isn't that illegal?
See the home of the Blogging Tories: http://www.tvcrazy.net/tvclassics/wallpaper/cartoons/mike/legion-doom.jpg
Interesting question, Skinny. You can tape your own conversation, but this sounds like eavesdropping or perhaps impersonation, if they passed themselves off as someone else. The NDP should investigate.
Okay, it's Wikipedia but I'm sure the GG will be considering the POINT of what prorogation is in the next week:
"A prorogation is the period between two sessions of a legislative body. ...
In the British and Canadian parliamentary systems, this is usually due to the COMPLETION OF THE AGENDA set forth in the Speech from the Throne."
For interest sake (from the same source):
When a legislature or parliament is prorogued, it is) still constituted (that is, all members remain as members and a general election is not necessary), but all orders of the body (bills, motions, etc.) are expunged. (In the British parliament, this has now changed somewhat in that Public Bills can be carried over from one session to another.)
OMG, does this mean other parties, unhappy with the tyranny of the minority might speak of their undoing. I simply can't believe this....NEXT.
Is this how pathetic the Cons have become?
Steve,
You are essentially right in that we voters elect our local MPs. I vote for Joe Schmoe. If he wishes to get together with a majority of other MPs and form a governing majority, that is his choice. He can unite with other Liberals, Conservatives, NDPers, Protestants, or Sudoko fanatics. Technically, we vote for our own MPs.
Who exactly taped that caucus call? Did John Baird hide behind a curtain; or maybe Steve himself put on a fake moustache and sat down with the NDP MPs?
Looking at that map, it brings up an interesting question; if the House seating chart is rearranged for a new minority, do the Bloc move over the "government" side, or do the Conservatives leave a wistful outpost?
Criminal Code s. 184 - unlawful to intercept provate communication unless you have the consent of one of the parties to that communication.
If he was there, he was receiving the communication so I do not think there is anything unlawful about it. If he tapped the phone, well then he is in trouble.
Something tells me he somehow managed to wrangle his way onto the call.
I guess the alternative theory is the CPC has "plants" in other parties. Somehow I am not paranoid enough to believe that though.
If Globe and Mail reporter, Tim Powers, is telling the truth, then the Conservative was legitimately in on the telephone call:
The NDP provided the date, time, call-in number and conference call code to the Conservative Party.
Now I wonder how the party of Laurier and Trudeau feels about this one. Layton has been playing the Liberals like a fiddle.
Drop the anti-Quebec, anti-Bloc bullsh!t.
Separatism is not on the agenda -- we all know that.
The Bloc wants a good deal for Quebec -- support for manufacturing, forestry, culture, etc.
There are MANY points of convergence between the Bloc platform and the platform of the NDP and LPC.
Get over the anti-Quebec nonsense.
We are on the verge of tanking Stephen Harper and of winning a progressive coalition government.
Put aside your petty anti-Quebec/anti-Bloc nonsense and fight for a progressive agenda that the majority of Canadians and Quebeckers want.
what anti-quebec stuff?
Tim Powers isn't a Globe and Mail reporter, he's a Conservative Party strategists that writes a blog for the globe.
Why would the Liberals care if Layton went ahead to smooth the road with the Bloc? Layton and the NDP have always wanted this sort of coalition; that's no secret.
A big deal is playing out on CBC Newsworld about this phone conference. Apparently it was put out by the Cons.
Have we forgotten already? Divide & conquer - typical Con ploy.
penlan
Exactly, this is meant to turn people against each other. It's a one day side story, ignore and move on. Just do what the Cons always do, change the channel.
catherine,
Just so you know, Wilf had some of his MP's cross the floor to sit with Borden during WWi. PET offered Cigar chomper Ed a seat in cabinet.
I'm sure this is really a really, really deep game that Harper set-up with Jack back when Martin was PM. 8-?
The PMO has sent out the transcript of the NDP Caucus conference call to the media. A copy of at least part is up on Macleans blog.
Okay, now that twat Poilievre is saying that the party financing was never the issue at all, and the new Tory boogieman is a sinister plot between the NDP and "the separatists" to take over the government?
These guys are so fucked.
According to Mulcair who is having apress conference right now the Cons ILEGALLY intercepted & taped the call & have now disseminated it. Apparently NDP are already consulting lawyers due to this act. It's a crime.
Which Macleans blog Catherine?
Heh, heh, heh. This is desperation. The NDP invited the CPC to listen in on their caucus meeting yesterday. It's just more spinning out of control.
Pierre Poilievre just made a total ass of himself on CBC Newsworld. The desperate conservatives have released "news" regarding an NDP caucus meeting that they were invited to listen in on. Oh the scandal? That the Bloc (or should I say SEPARATISTS) and NDP have been conducting "secret shady meetings"to reverse the election results in their quest for a MASSIVE power grab.
I sure hope it was caught on YouTube because it is so over the top you can't help but laugh. What a weasel.
Also go vote for coalition:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/
penlan, Kady O'Malley has posted it.
ty Catherine
This sounds good. From CTV: Mulcair added that the NDP were also pursuing legal action against the Tories for listening in and broadcasting a private discussion.
If this tape was obtained illegally, then anyone in possession of it is guilty of an offence under s. 354 of the Criminal Code - possession of property obtained by crime.
According to the CBC and NDP spokesperson Brad Lavigne, the CPC were invited to listen in but it was thought to be a confidential conference call.
This is key, from The Star:
NDP spokesperson Brad Lavigne said the Conservatives are merely trying to deflect attention from the government losing the confidence of the House of Commons.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/546198
I think the fact that the CPC are so desperate that they cannot even respect confidentiality is obvious and to their own detriment.
I think the NDP, Bloc and LPC should remain calm and dismiss the whole thing as desperation.
Every time a party threatens to sue another party or focus on legal investigations, it looks petty and partisan. Take the high road. No state/party secrets were revealed.
Well said, thank you for clarifying the situation so easily for all Canadians.
Beijing York, I don't understand. Why would the NDP invite the CPC to listen in?
I think we should drop this issue entirely tomorrow, it's just a diversion. Harper did the same thing, plotted with the Bloc, when Martin was in power, so big whoop. It's all about reacting now, that's the goal, I say whatever.
If the NDP meant to invite the CPC, then obviously they shouldn't sue. But why would they do that?
If they did not mean to invite the CPC, then they should sue, because even getting a mistaken invitation and using it to covertly tape a private conversation is illegal. When someone does something illegal that undermines the system, one should sue.
If they have grounds to sue or launch legal actions against the CPC, wait until the Harper government is toppled. If their actions were criminal, the crime won't go away.
Giving the media a chance to focus on an impending lawsuit only serves Harper in my view. I'm sure they are probably hoping the progressive blogosphere gets in a tizzy over the NDP demanding an investigation etc.
I don't get it. A lawsuit against Harper for illegal taping only adds to the picture that he will do anything to undermine the opposition. I'm more concerned in knowing whether the CPC was there by invitation or not. Admittedly, I don't trust Layton.
Harper is better equipped at handling accusations of scandal than those of ineptness. He's been like teflon on every other scandal raised because he recognizes that a steady non-reaction is better politics than an over-reaction. Chretien is also gifted with the same reflexes.
An angry Jack Layton or heaven forbid Pat Martin (Mr. Ethics MP) is the worst thing that could happen when the idea of a coalition government is picking up momentum.
Right now the Winnipeg Free Press (fairly right wing) is reporting 69% in favour of a coalition government. It's been on the rise all day.
Having the media spend the week focused on whether the taping was illegal, unethical or inept (on the part of the NDP) would be a shot in the arm for Harper. It's bait and the whole news item should be buried as fast as possible in my view.
York
Ditto :)
Not sure how comfortable I am with this whole coalition thing, especially with this tape nonsense. Maybe it was dirty pool on the part of the CPC, but it shows a lack of political maturity on the Dips part. It would be nice to see Harper go, but maybe he is an asset for the Libs. A Prentice administration is not as scary, non?
We have shown that we are not going to take the CPC's shit anymore, they have basically conceeded, why pursue this further? It will start to look more and more like a power grab. The CPC is wounded but not dead. We can go have our convention, get a new leader and truly rebuild, I am not sure this is the way to go about it. Plus, this whole episode shows that the Libs need to get their fundraising shit together. I think a week to think about this is actually a good thing.
Lib - if Harper went and a moderate replaced him, I think the opposition would have a hard time justifying a coalition.
That would give the LPC an opportunity to get their act together as well.
Frankly I am not concerned about a conservative government under a moderate leader. It is Harper I want gone.
Why would the Liberals care if Layton went ahead to smooth the road with the Bloc?
They shouldn't, until the moment where they sign an agreement with a separatist party, to support their coalition.
I'm an former-Quebecer, and proud of it. Not anti-Quebec, as anony-BQ implies, but anti-separatist.
We have shown that we are not going to take the CPC's shit anymore, they have basically conceeded, why pursue this further?
Indeed. I've never been a member of any party, I just make sure I vote for the party I believe in.
For the first time, I've written to my MP to tell him not to support this coalition. Sure, he's a Liberal, but I voted for him a couple times, and he owes me.
Post a Comment