Sunday, December 20, 2009

Help Me Understand

I keep hearing all these pundits tell me that the Afghan detainee issue doesn't resonate beyond Ottawa and the political class. Assuming that is true, why do the VERY SAME people cite the Afghan detainee issue as a primary positive reason for Harper to prorogue? So nobody cares, but proroguing would help Harper avoid the persistent problem that nobody cares about. Harper is able to nullify a damaging issue, that doesn't have the capacity to do him any harm. Hmmm. You're to smart for me Tom Flanagan, and all your pundit "class" friends, because I can't grasp the logic.


********************Donas Kim Leaman said...

Someone must be interested, This will be the 42nd Story in my Rapidly Expanding Colvin File.

In fact,I find it hard to believe that there are Any who Do not Care about Canada's Role in this Insidious Cover-up, and doubly difficult to believe so of Elected Members of Parliament.

Anonymous said...

The big fear for both the Cons and Libs is that our dead soldiers fought not for democracy at all. The occupation is based on a lie and further it seems there is a deliberate ploy to keep Afgan unstable. Now why would that be? Canadian soldiers are being used as cannon fodder to maintain a declining America. Watch Canada's fuehrer puke up sense of duty, patriotism, to keep our troops there beyond '11.

Why are the msm and even bloggers so shy to state what they really think?

RuralSandi said...

Amazing how these pundits get around to talking personally to many, many Canadians about this isn't it? As usual in the Con way of thinking - it's the media's fault. Actually, the media are just starting to pay attention to Harper the way they should - way overdue.

People are preoccupied with Xmas....that will soon be over.

In the New Year we'll be back to dull routine and paying attention to the regular day to day stuff.

Prairie Kid said...

Is the constant media coverage of the torture of Taliban detainees politically motivated?

When a Taliban prisoner told another prisoner who told an official who told Richard Colvin that they were tortured, were Liberals and the Canadian media concerned? Of course they were and are. It’s front page news and has been for weeks.

When several young girls had acid thrown in their faces by the Taliban, were Liberals and the Canadian media concerned? Maybe one or two mentions on the news and then it died.

When 2 women were shot in the head by the Taliban for running a radio station, were Liberals and the Canadian media concerned? No mention of it on the news that I remember.

When hundreds of women were taken to a soccer field and executed by the Taliban for such serious crimes as talking to a man on the street who wasn’t related to them, were Liberals and the Canadian media concerned? Maybe a mention or 2 on the news.

When women school teachers are routinely killed or tortured by the Taliban, are Liberals and the Canadian media concerned? No outrage from either. Their silence speaks volumes.

The fact is that all of these events were far more serious than a few Taliban prisoners allegedly being tortured. Yet the execution of innocent people is not remembered but the presumed torture of the Taliban who tortured and executed those women is not only remembered by Liberals and the Canadian media, it’s encouraged to keep it front and center for all Canadians to read and hear just to discredit the Conservatives.

You probably won't post this piece anyway because you dislike dissenting views. Kind of like the Climate Conference.

Steve V said...

"You probably won't post this piece anyway because you dislike dissenting views."

No it's just an adversion to complete and utter stupidity.

JimBobby said...

The "Who cares?" argument is about the only thing the Cons have left. Even the inhumane monsters who don't care about the torture and abuse of possibly innocent detainees ought to care that their government lied time and again.

This is not an ITQ thing. It reaches the very soul of every Canadian. The Somalia incident shocked and shamed an entire nation. This is moving quickly in that same direction and no amount of Parliamentary jiggery-pokery and/or paid-for "Who cares?" comments will keep the ugly truth from emerging.

Who cares? Anybody who gives it 10 seconds of serious thought.

Peace on Earth. Goodwill to men.


Steve V said...

"The "Who cares?" argument is about the only thing the Cons have left."

It's an admission of failure. Or, you can go the PK route, and ignore the counter evidence at your disposal and try to make it sound like all the detainees were high level targets. God forbid a Con demonstrates the basic capacity to actually read. Pathetic.

penlan said...

PK posted the same comment, cut & paste, on other blogs with related Afghan detainee posts. No thoughts there - just follow the Con talking line.

I haven't met or talked with anyone who isn't shamed & angered by this issue & I'm talking about the regular joe that you find at Tim Horton's. It's only Con trolls & people like Flanagan who thinks "we" don't care - & they are in the minority.

Steve V said...

For people that don't care, they sure seem to spend lots of time "dissenting". Odd that.

Tof KW said...

I'm afraid Harper's going to pull this off again. The CPC-friendly media has been softening up the public for prorogation (anyone else catch Question Period yesterday?) leading me to believe the decision has been made.

I hate the optics of this, but I'm afraid outsiders will have to take over after Harper prorogues Parliament (again). I think an investigation by the ICC is the only way the truth will ever come out now.

Steve V said...

Not so sure this time. Flanagan was forced to do the "liberal media" complaint yesterday, citing the G and M (who endorsed Harper the creton) and the CBC (who had Flanagan, Ivison together on a panel looking into the worth of the Afghan detainee file, how FAIR) as instigating this non-issue. Flanagan even said "others" are now picking up on it, with the exception being that propaganda rag that bleeds money.

Coyne has a good piece today. I wonder if the Libs should start pushing the GG to refuse any request, frame it as Harper trying to avoid Parliamentary supremacy, even raise the constitutional crisis angle.

Tof KW said...

That's the point, CTV's panel was totally biased on this one, and they didn’t even both to conceal it. They couldn't get more partisan unless Duffy were added to the panel, which I'm surprised they didn't do.

I did read Coyne's article just now, and it was a great synopsis of the story thus far and the constitutional ramifications this spawns. The problem though, and last year’s debacle illustrates it clearly, is that the public is completely ignorant to the way our Parliament works. Indeed I see this as a similar challenge to the House of Commons as when Charles I attempted to defy the British Parliament. However, how many Canadians even realise that the will of the House is above any king, or sitting government?

I already see Harper pulling the ‘people should decide’ card again, and using election threats and the coalition bogey-man arguments again, all in hopes that the opposition caves once the ignorance of the public is played. The Liberals have to be really smart on this one, literally the very foundation of our system of government is at stake. We know how Harper acts, think ahead on the PR angles in addition to covering all the legal bases. Likewise the Governor General had better consult the past 500+ years of Parliamentary tradition before she allows Harper to hide behind her skirt again.

BTW – yes I nearly puked when Flanagan had the balls to say the Globe had a pro-Lib agenda. I’m accustomed to all the CBC-bashing, but to target a media organization who openly advocated for Harper’s election over the past two votes is just mind-numbing.

Steve V said...

Agree on Libs playing this smart. I think the gameplan is to prorogue, then comeback after Olympics with a budget and try to force an election. They are counting on a positive mood in the country, and this torture issue is making a quick call all the more attractive. It will be very hard to hurt the government on this file during a fast paced campaign.

Steve V said...

As an aside, the highlight of that interview for me was when Flanagan attempted to smile.

Gayle said...

"When women school teachers are routinely killed or tortured by the Taliban, are Liberals and the Canadian media concerned? No outrage from either. Their silence speaks volumes."

I was just wondering if you could post something that demonstrates the outrage from the CPC. How exactly did they articulate their outrage?

Of course, if they were outraged by this, as they should be, they should also be outraged by torture - that is, if you want to be consistent and stuff.

Marx-A-Million said...

Personally I love how you guys just keep reposting all the same opinion over and over again without adding anything new to the narrative. It helps keep the issue in the public sphere without requiring you brilliantly creative people to actually write original thought. I love it.

Gayle said...


I am not sure who is saying this issue does not resonate outside Ottawa, because I read a story about it in our local paper every day.

Frankly, I do not think the prorogation helps Harper. It will happen in January, after people stop being distracted by Christmas, and while some media are soft-selling it, others are not doing that. Coyne makes some excellent points, and I would not be surprised if other media organizations jump on that bandwagon. While most people do not understand our parliamentary procedure, that story got lost last year because the bigger story was the agreement with the Bloc. This time around there are no distractions - the story is about circumventing the political process, and it could be a juicey one.

By the way, I read on the Macleans blogs a couple weeks ago that the PMO was excited when the current editor of the Globe took over the reins, because they saw him as being very conservative. If that is true I have to give the Gloe credit for seeing past tht in order to pursue the bigger interest which is the detainee story.

Steve V said...

Most of the people saying it won't resonate outside Ottawa spend to much time in Ottawa.

Tof KW said...

Frankly, I do not think the prorogation helps Harper. It will happen in January, after people stop being distracted by Christmas, and while some media are soft-selling it, others are not doing that.

Even if the media forgets, all it would take is for the International Criminal Court to begin an investigation, and then this all comes back regardless of prorogation.