Wonder if it makes a diff, though. Its a G8 thing, and no matter what happens in HOC, G8 probably won't push a plan that doesn't include 1) contraception, 2) maybe abortion.
It was never going to make a difference to the actual substance of the issue. Its just that instead of the story being about the Tories being closet Bush-style social conservatives - the story is about Ignatieff not being in control of his caucus and the Liberals being the only party that is divided on this issue.
I personally don't think its a big deal. Me thinks that the vote is not exactly a victory for the Cons either.
I like that the liberals will not be forced to vote with the leader or else like the Cons do. Good for them. I think the vote in the house showed us women exactly how out of touch Harper and moron Mp's are with womens issues and their bodies. I for one will not let a dictator Reformer tell me what I can or cannot do. They can all go to hell.
You guys are acting like anybody ever thought Paul Szabo would ever vote some other way. Some Libs didn't show up.
It's a combination problem of those who lack commitment and those who might be in the wrong party or at least those who can't figure out how useless their religious views are to women of the Congo. This is a problem.
truly disappointing...takes the focus off of the government and their narrow view of what constitutes women's health and places it on the issues which prevail within the LPC....
The Liberals produced a wedge issue in order to gain political points.
It blew up in their face while
The Tories stayed united.
Ignatieff insulted Evangelicals, and the Catholic Church by forcing this issue. Many never bothered to show up. A few committed Catholics and a Evangelical even voted with the Tories.
Ignatieff does not know his own caucus. He is out of touch.
You know what? A big tent party is going to have strays, that's not the point here for me. The point here, you don't present a motion which you know doesn't have enough support. Nothing worse than self inflicted wounds, and this issue is now lost.
On a side note, I do get a kick of all the Cons and NDP partisans linking to this post, wherein I demonstrate a capacity they never do. Great amusement that.
I see it differently. The Cons are now on record (ALL of them) as voting against family planning and women's rights.
It's hard when a guy has to chose between his "deep" religious beliefs and his generally Liberal views.
It's not an important vote - but proves where the Cons stand. They do whatever Harper wants whether they agree or not. Apparently, some Cons didn't agree with Harper but voted whatever he wanted them to.
For those of us who sit awkwardly in support of the Liberal party I am beginning to wonder (wondering for quite sometime actually) just how much stumbling and bumbling we are expected to endure? Thankfully, we have a government whose leader, for all intents and purposes, hinders his party from forming a majority. Of course that is of little comfort when the oppositional situation of the HoC pretty much allows Harper to govern as though he held a majority. I don't know, I like to think there is inspirational light on the horizon, but I think that may be thinking of the most wishful kind. Expect the next round of polling to show the Harper government pulling ahead once again. By the way, has Milliken come back with his decision on the contempt of Parliament issue or is that just another train blown off the rails?
It's not an important vote - but proves where the Cons stand. They do whatever Harper wants whether they agree or not. Apparently, some Cons didn't agree with Harper but voted whatever he wanted them to.
. Exactly Sandra. As I mentioned in above post, the outcome is not doing Harper any favors with women. Goodbye Harper on getting their votes and more so their trust.
We women listen to our instincts and the instints we have about Harper tells us stay away, far far away. The only women who are following him are those that have something to gain like jobs, favors etc and his wife or dominering husbands, partners etc. Sometimes love is blind.
I think the libs accomplished what they wanted. To expose Harper for the gutter rat that he is. His way or my way attitute and to hell with the rest of you.
Thats my take on this issue and if its not yours that's okay but I for one can't stand that lying SOB and the sooner he is gone, the better it will be for the lot of us. If some of us don't agree, it also says a lot about us all.
We can critize all we want but the truth is, Harper is distroying our country, our morals and our famlies. Sorry for the typos but I had my Cp worked on and lost my spell check and that sucks
I suppose there is a chance that the Liberal's can re-brand this thing to somehow criticize the government for opposing the motion, but since many Canadian's are personally against abortion and many more not sure how much we should be pushing our values on others...
Perhaps the Liberal's can say that the CPC is against women, or a women's right to choose, but since the CPC has strongly resisted "going there" in the last four years I just don't see how that can stand up to any scrutiny.
If it is a wedge issue, it looks like the LPC is getting the wedgie.
23 comments:
Wonder if it makes a diff, though. Its a G8 thing, and no matter what happens in HOC, G8 probably won't push a plan that doesn't include 1) contraception, 2) maybe abortion.
Its a bit of theatre that went wrong, AFAIK.
Though embarrassing enoug.
It was always non binding to the gov't anyways, so we were just trying to score points.
It was never going to make a difference to the actual substance of the issue. Its just that instead of the story being about the Tories being closet Bush-style social conservatives - the story is about Ignatieff not being in control of his caucus and the Liberals being the only party that is divided on this issue.
DL
Just stole my post.
I was going to say the same thing.
The narrative now is all about a divided liberal caucus.
Not the substance of the initiative, and it's lack of contraception, and family planning.
That is what should be discussed.
Religion over good policy.
It was a clever ploy to embarrass the TheoCons and make them show their true colours.
Absolute no brainer. NDP and Bloc on side.
But the Liberals obviously can't organize a piss-up in a brewery.
Three Harper Liberals voted AGAINST family planning. And a bunch of others went AWOL.
Because telling teh wimmins what they can do with their bodies is more important than demonstrating to Canadians that we have a functional Opposition.
And Canada looks like a total ijit on the world stage.
Ah, but nemmind, as you Lib boyos are so fond of pointing out -- women's rights don't make a 'diff'.
I personally don't think its a big deal. Me thinks that the vote is not exactly a victory for the Cons either.
I like that the liberals will not be forced to vote with the leader or else like the Cons do. Good for them. I think the vote in the house showed us women exactly how out of touch Harper and moron Mp's are with womens issues and their bodies. I for one will not let a dictator Reformer tell me what I can or cannot do. They can all go to hell.
By the way, the exploding whale is also an excellent graphic for this kind of situation. Youtube it.
I've seen that. Nasty.
You guys are acting like anybody ever thought Paul Szabo would ever vote some other way. Some Libs didn't show up.
It's a combination problem of those who lack commitment and those who might be in the wrong party or at least those who can't figure out how useless their religious views are to women of the Congo. This is a problem.
truly disappointing...takes the focus off of the government and their narrow view of what constitutes women's health and places it on the issues which prevail within the LPC....
Szabo is now saying that he didn't know it was a whippped vote.
I repeat: couldn't organize a piss-up. . .
Who the feck thought this was a thing in the first place!? What is the BEST one gets from this motion? Oh, yeah I remember SFA!
Isn't there one person with a political brain left at LPC? Sheesh!
Unfortunately, we are so open to mockery now, this issue is effectively dead- as far as us leading the charge anyways.
The Liberals produced a wedge issue in order to gain political points.
It blew up in their face while
The Tories stayed united.
Ignatieff insulted Evangelicals, and the Catholic Church by forcing this issue.
Many never bothered to show up.
A few committed Catholics and a Evangelical even voted with the Tories.
Ignatieff does not know his own caucus. He is out of touch.
Shouldn't Mckay, Szabo, and Mcteague go join the CPC.
As for Derek Lee, I know he didn't vote at all today, but he is opposed to equal maariage rights for all Canadians, and is anti choice.
What is he doing in the Liberal party. Could it be he comes from a riding he could not get elected in as a CPC?
If you do not believe in the philosophy of the party, then you should not be sitting as a LPOC MP.
This is why church and state should not mix.
Your personal views should have no bearing on public policy.
As far as I am concerned, those 4 should all get the boot.
"The Tories stayed united."
Wow, what resolve on this issue. What a bore.
Nero
You know what? A big tent party is going to have strays, that's not the point here for me. The point here, you don't present a motion which you know doesn't have enough support. Nothing worse than self inflicted wounds, and this issue is now lost.
On a side note, I do get a kick of all the Cons and NDP partisans linking to this post, wherein I demonstrate a capacity they never do. Great amusement that.
The Liberal goofs on the front bench also voted for and against the budget at the same time.
They had to do a do over.
For christ's sake, what the hell is the matter with these guys.
Do they intentionally try to bring ridicule upon themselves.
I thought they had such a brilliant brain trust.
Someone needs a good swift kick.
I would love to be the one to deliver it.
These guys are handing it to Harper on a plate.
And the thought of him winning another term makes me sick.
Harper is a right wing religious crackpot, and a vile individual.
I see it differently. The Cons are now on record (ALL of them) as voting against family planning and women's rights.
It's hard when a guy has to chose between his "deep" religious beliefs and his generally Liberal views.
It's not an important vote - but proves where the Cons stand. They do whatever Harper wants whether they agree or not. Apparently, some Cons didn't agree with Harper but voted whatever he wanted them to.
For those of us who sit awkwardly in support of the Liberal party I am beginning to wonder (wondering for quite sometime actually) just how much stumbling and bumbling we are expected to endure? Thankfully, we have a government whose leader, for all intents and purposes, hinders his party from forming a majority. Of course that is of little comfort when the oppositional situation of the HoC pretty much allows Harper to govern as though he held a majority. I don't know, I like to think there is inspirational light on the horizon, but I think that may be thinking of the most wishful kind. Expect the next round of polling to show the Harper government pulling ahead once again. By the way, has Milliken come back with his decision on the contempt of Parliament issue or is that just another train blown off the rails?
It's not an important vote - but proves where the Cons stand. They do whatever Harper wants whether they agree or not. Apparently, some Cons didn't agree with Harper but voted whatever he wanted them to.
.
Exactly Sandra. As I mentioned in above post, the outcome is not doing Harper any favors with women. Goodbye Harper on getting their votes and more so their trust.
We women listen to our instincts and the instints we have about Harper tells us stay away, far far away. The only women who are following him are those that have something to gain like jobs, favors etc and his wife or dominering husbands, partners etc. Sometimes love is blind.
I think the libs accomplished what they wanted. To expose Harper for the gutter rat that he is. His way or my way attitute and to hell with the rest of you.
Thats my take on this issue and if its not yours that's okay but I for one can't stand that lying SOB and the sooner he is gone, the better it will be for the lot of us. If some of us don't agree, it also says a lot about us all.
We can critize all we want but the truth is, Harper is distroying our country, our morals and our famlies. Sorry for the typos but I had my Cp worked on and lost my spell check and that sucks
Have a good day all.
Steve,
The best line was apparently from Tony Clement:
"it's raining frogs across the aisle"
This is clearly an embarrassment.
I suppose there is a chance that the Liberal's can re-brand this thing to somehow criticize the government for opposing the motion, but since many Canadian's are personally against abortion and many more not sure how much we should be pushing our values on others...
Perhaps the Liberal's can say that the CPC is against women, or a women's right to choose, but since the CPC has strongly resisted "going there" in the last four years I just don't see how that can stand up to any scrutiny.
If it is a wedge issue, it looks like the LPC is getting the wedgie.
Tomm
Nice that the Conservatives could take a break from flip flopping to comment.
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