Sunday, August 23, 2009

Loose Cannon

If I could offer some unsolicited advice to my Green friends, it would be to put the HOOK on this guy, who's cluelessness is breathtaking. May has a unnecessary fight on her hands:
Green Party Leader Elizabeth May is being challenged by a member of her own party for the nomination in her chosen riding of Saanich – Gulf Islands, BC.

"[T]he ‘leader’ of a Green Party is supposed to be a spokesperson, not a dictator. The cult of leadership and its promotion by the corporate media is not Green. I believe that getting the leader of the Green Party elected won’t change anything, except to guarantee the flow of funds to central party coffers and reduce the Green party to being seen as just another bunch of untrustworthy politicians that make self-serving deals...."

"By desperately trying to become a mainstream political party, Green parties are in danger of losing their vision, and soul. It has been said that: 'Without vision, the people perish.' I say that without principles, politics is an empty charade...."

Yes, much better to stay out of "mainstream" politics, which apparently means having NO MP's- you know the people that actually have a PRACTICAL purpose. No offence to Mr. Hertzog but he reads like some wigged out idealist, that is quite content to just remain in theoretical land, with no relevance, just so he can maintain his esoteric purity.

If you actually review the Green platform, it's entirely a mainstream consideration on balance. Progressive, innovative, but not necessarily marginal. It's like the guy who discoveries his obscure indie band, then get's all disgusted when they become somewhat popular, then brands them a sellout because his cherished "underground" tag is lost.

Do you want to be a player or not? Do you want to have some impact on our political discourse, or are you content to hiss from the sidelines and be ignored? Seems to me, Greens have elected representatives in other countries, is it so horrific to want your leader to have a voice?

Whether or not May should run in this riding is an open question. However, to actually think May getting elected "won't change anything" is staggering in it's ignorance. I know what won't change anything, not having a seat at the table, not having a vehicle to push your agenda- you know, the one that attracted you in the first place.

Some Green needs to take Mr. Hertzog for a walk and have the birds and the bees talk, because any day now he might just reach political puberty. All he's doing is causing harm, there is nothing good that will come out this "crusade".


Anonymous said...

The guy is right about one thing:

""[T]he ‘leader’ of a Green Party is supposed to be a spokesperson, not a dictator."

and if I were a member of the Green Party I'd be pissed off at how that party seems to have turned into nothing more than the "let's get Elizabeth May elected - somewhere - PLEASE Party". After the last election where some absurd proportion of all the Green Party's meager resources were funneled into her quixotic and hopeless campaign in Central Nova - now she says the mistake the Green Party made last election was not focusing ENOUGH on getting her elected (oh and by the way she would gladly accept being named to the Senate or be Minister of the Environment in a Liberal government as a consolation prize). Never mind this bizarre guy opposing her for the nomination - I wonder how demoralized people in that party must feel in the other 307 ridings where they have been told that they don't matter and where they remember how in the dying days of the last election, May more or less told people NOT to vote Green (unless they were in Central Nova)

Tomm said...


Great post.

There are clearly two issues here and both are worthy of discussion. The most obvious one is who is in charge of the party and which levers can they pull by themselves, which with party executive approval, and which require a fullblown discussion and perhaps some sort of communistic self critical consensus process.

We clearly know where Mr. Hertzog stands on this.

The second is the nature of some of the Green members represented by Hertzog. After reading your post I read from the other site, Stuart Hertzog reminds me of someone who wishes he lived in the 20's In Prague spending his days in smoky cafes having conspiratorial discussions with Franz Kafka. There are more than a few people like that in the Green Party. For example the Green candidate in Central Nova before May was David Orton, the Green spokesperson for "deep ecology".

As you may know, deep ecology is a philosophy that if implemented would utterly destroy human society.

Orton and Hertzog appear to be from that sliver of the Green Party.

Lord of Wealth said...

While scant few, there are some quite bizzare relics from the sit around, get high and claim we superior faction of deep greens. Somehow they think that pure ideals with no money, no press, no work and no platform will some day lead them to power. Or perhaps they don't even want power just the satsifaction of saying we told you so.

I get really tired of this too centralized crap, no group without central planning has ever got elected. 307 ridings all doing their own thing with no resources would be pointless. Poll, study and allocate to locations where there is at least a slim chance, all while the rest of us go on plugging just to create more name recognition.
As pop vote grows the number of focused ridings will grow. That's the only way to win folks.

John Ogilvie said...

Greens are famous for being hard to herd. For many years the party had no "leader", just a "spokesperson."

While a certain amount of central coordination is definitely needed, we are a party that is strongest at the grassroots, not the center.

Elizabeth was elected by 2000 members of the GPC in 2006, compared to 1000 votes for her opponent. Her actions since 2006 have not increased her support in the party.

The Greens - unlike other parties - actually practice democracy. It's ugly sometimes, but it needs to happen. For those of you in other parties, enjoy the show.

Steve V said...

"The Greens - unlike other parties - actually practice democracy."

That's all fine and dandy, but undercutting your own leader in this way is such a bastardization of ideals it just reeks of amateur hour. This isn't ugly, it's sheer stupidity.

DL said...

Steve, I don't know why you're being so hard one one rogue in the Green Party "under cutting his leader". The Liberal Party has written the book on undercutting its leaders about 20 times over. Look at how Chretien's people openly conspired against and sabotaged John Turner, followed by Paul Martin's people openly conspiring against and sabotaging Chretien, followed by all out war between Martin and the remnants of the Chretien gang, followed by Dion being undercut at every turn by the Ignatieff loyalists - when will it end?

I'm actually surprised that there isn't an even more open revolt against May in the Green Party after the way she essentially tossed her own party into a well during the election campaign. How long do you think Jack Layton would survive as NDP leader if he had spent the last week of the election campaign saying "vote for me in Danforth and vote for my wife in her riding and everywhere else just vote for whoever you think can beat the Tories"??

Anonymous said...

"This isn't ugly, it's sheer stupidity."

I, for one, am totally disgusted with the leader-centric politics that is dominating Canada. In fact, I blame the political junkies who take their influence from the people south of the 49th parallel.

What Canada needs is a party to the left of the New Democrats. There are many who want to end NAFTA, support taxing the rich, pull the troops out of Afghanistan, and believes that globalization is the villain that causes environmental degradation. Neither Jack Layton and Lizzie May will support these policies due to their obsession with leadership policies. If either one of them support these viewpoints, the Canadian left is much happier.

There must be room in Canada for the deep ecologists. Their viewpoints deserve consideration.

Anonymous said...

"I'm actually surprised that there isn't an even more open revolt against May in the Green Party after the way she essentially tossed her own party into a well during the election campaign."

For a party that finances itself through the ballot box, this is not throwing the party into a well. What she said is support me first. Then vote tactically for Stephane Dion if you can (which many people could not).

Steve V said...


Umm, if the NDP had no seats and only one realistic hope, I'm sure you guys would have been just fine with him staying the Danforth. Apples and oranges.

As for the Liberal angle, I don't see the analogy here.

shavluk said...

Well I hate to jump in here and burst any bubbles too badly but I agree with John Ogilvie on many things said.
And I want to add that I go to court suing E May January 4th 2010 and already hold proof she perjured herself with sworn court documents.
I guess this will come down to when an election is actually held but if it is after January 2010 I would not hold my breath about E May's chances...Not at all!

May has single handedly convinced me she must yes go away and I have now sworn to up hold that decision.

I also hold tape recordings, video and internet pages of her malicious wrong doings. So unless May can buy the judge etc,she will not have very much credibility at that point and certainly won't be winning anything never mind a green seat.

The Green Party will survive quite well with out E May.
John shavluk

Steve V said...


Anonymous said...

Hertzog Wigged out. And how does that make him any different than Lizzy???

Rob C

Sebastian Ronin said...

As tends to be the norm in the Canadian political blogosphere, the notion of "tactics" seems not to be in the dictionary.

This is a brilliant tactical move by Stuart and his supporters! The reasons for are much too lengthy to list in blog response. I merely ask that people that employ that greatest of political assets: one's political imagination.

Stuart has stepped over a line. This move will shake things up considerably, and the pieces may very likely not be able to put back together again. It looks good on Liz "Humpty" May.

Sebastian Ronin, GPNS Leadership Candidate

Steve V said...

"This is a brilliant tactical move by Stuart and his supporters!"

Anyone who actually thinks this is a brilliant tactic needs a chess lesson. It's so objectively BAD, almost colossal in it's sheer stupidity. You're own worst enemies.

Sebastian Ronin said...

SteveV, you miss the context, ergo what constitutes a brilliant tactic or not. I am record for 25 years that the GPC, relative to Green politics is a pretender, a political Frankenstein, a lie. Anything that works towards its dismemberment, from my perspective and political motives, falls under "tactically brilliant."

Mark Dowling said...

The Green Party in Ireland went into coalition with the "natural governing party" and are in the process of being buried alive because the starry eyed idealism which comes with membership is doomed by conventional politics.

Their "weird" party structure which permits special conferences to be called by members seems to be the only thing standing in the way of a disastrous Asset Management Agency bailout of the banks.

I think Greens like Mr. Herzog are right to be wary of the GPC becoming "just another party", just like Mr. Ignatieff and Mr. Obama are transitioning into becoming "just another leader" at present.

Saskboy said...

Raising a controversy, maybe faked, is just what they need to get a little media attention again. Surely he must realize that she'd have to sign his nomination, and if she being elected to Ottawa is meaningless, then he being elected is also that way.