Tuesday, September 01, 2009

Well, Well

Mulclair must have got a peek at the NDP books:
But New Democrat MP Thomas Mulcair immediately offered an olive branch.

"What I'm saying is: the last thing Canadians want is a fourth general election in five years and we'd better have a bloody good reason for forcing a fourth general election in five years.

"If, on the other hand, Stephen Harper comes into Parliament with a willingness to work in the public interest, then we're going to take it on a case-by-case basis. Our caucus will decide."

This stance is just laughable on so many levels. What happened to completely opposing the Conservatives at every turn, how they're an evil scourge than should be "turfed" at the first opportunity? Now, it's a "case by case" basis and olive branches. Cue the rationalizations from the usual suspects.

A good reason for forcing an election? What happened to those 79 non confidence motions, that you brag about at every turn, where you effectively ENDORSED an election? Oh, that's when you could hide behind the adults in the room, now that they've taken a different path, it's this AMAZING line.

What a hoot, this day. It's raining humble pie on Mount Pure.

48 comments:

Jennifer Smith said...

BHAHaha ha ha ha!!!!

Oh, that's just too rich! I can't wait for the vote.

Steve V said...

And, why if NDP supporters believe this all just more Liberal bluster, why put out the olive branch? We don't mean it, but you're folding like a cheap suit. Strange.

Anonymous said...

Tooooo funny.

And there was Layton attempting to humilitate Dion at the last leader's debate for propping up the Cons on all of those 70+ non-confidence motions.

Let's let the NDP "wear" any public disdain for another election. That's all they wanted all the time in any event!

Anonymous said...

Mulcair never used the term "olive branch".--you're just making that up

All he said was that the NDP would vote on a case by case basis as it ALWAYS has. The only exception to that behavious was when the NDP had a chance not just to force an election but form a new government.

(Of course that iopportunity was lost thanks to Michael Ignatieff, but hey...)

Joseph said...

This is rather funny on some level. I can almost smell the skidmarks from here. IRK. Full stop.

"Quick, Mulclair, get out there and start tap-dancing."

"Why me, Jack! You can go out and . . ."

(pushing is seen behind the curtain, then Mulclair appears to give the prepared statement shoved into his hands.

The Rational Number said...

I LOL'ed when I read that. Thx.

Steve V said...

anon

That was from the piece, I highlighted the quotes. Only a complete and utter... doesn't deduce an olive branch from those comments. Deal with it.

JimmE said...

For what it's worth I predict a Visionary Iggy, & a milquetoast NDP will drive support from all other parties towards Iggy, and make the other 2 opposition parties even less likely to bring down the present PM just yet. My guess (been wrong before) we don't get a vote until a budget in the spring.

RuralSandi said...

What happened to the NDP position that they will never, never, ever, never trust Harper?

Case by case basis - do they plan to read anything before they vote?

DL said...

A few months ago, you were condemning the NDP for stating that they would vote down the government no matter what without even reading what was in the budget. Now you condemn them for saying that they will look at the issues at stake on each issue before deciding how to vote.

Joseph said...

No, DL, that's not quite it.

The issue is the NDP constantly asserts they operate on some higher, stately plane above all the other parties. So they look even more foolish when their unassailable nobility of purpose folds like a cheap suit.

I can't wait for Jack's next public comments.

ottlib said...

Good strategy by the Liberals to announce straight up, before the beginning of the Fall session that they have had enough. Either the NDP or the Bloc can prevent an election so it does not always need to be the Liberals.

With this strategy the NDP's safety net has been removed. They will no longer have the option of rejecting everything the government says without facing some consequences.

Naturally, that would give them pause and force them to change their strategy for the coming Parliamentary session. We saw the first hints of that today with the statement by Mr. Mulclair. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is all part of Canadian politics.

Steve rightly points out that new necessity and all of the NDP supporters come on here making statements dripping with false bravado.

I am always surprised by the level of naivete and idealism amongst many NDP supporters. They just cannot seem to wrap their heads around the fact the NDP are just like any other party in Parliament. They do not always put the national interest above party interest and it has always been so. Hell, even Ed Broadbent, whom I believe is one the most principled federal politicians Canadians has had in recent history, chose political expediency from time-to-time.

This new Liberal strategy is going to force all of the other parties in Parliament to adjust, perhaps doing things much differently than before. It is that simple and the NDP will not be able to escape that reality. So, I would suggest to NDP supporters to accept the fact your party is just like every other. You will sleep better at night.

Note: The word verification for this post was torys. Is the blogger now becoming biased towards the Conservatives?

Steve V said...

DL

No, no. A few months ago you were praising your real opposition status, and now your praising what you chastized the Liberals for. I'm just watching the contortions, and the blatant hypocrisy.

The NDP uses the Liberals for cover, once we flex, you guys look lost. Mulclair probably has some internal data for his seat and knows something formidable is heading his way.

RuralSandi said...

You'd think Mulcair would be rubbing his newish NDP hands - Layton fails - he gets a chance to be leader of the NDP....

ottlib said...

Only if he keeps his seat Sandi and that is very much in doubt with the resurgence of the Liberals in Quebec.

Steve V said...

"They just cannot seem to wrap their heads around the fact the NDP are just like any other party in Parliament. "

My thesis from the beginning. The only difference, they never have enough support to actually govern, so they have the luxury of theoretical land where everything is lily white and pure. The NDP are just Liberals that don't have power. If you doubt that, look at the political disposition of Doer, and the new wonderboy in Nova Scotia.

Anonymous said...

Mulcair: ""We in the NDP are saying we're going back to Parliament to try to make it work."

How does that jive with the fact that the NDP has voted to bring down the government over 70 times?

Looks like the NDP has been crying wolf too many times and now it is looking over a political precipice.

Robert McClelland said...

Yawn. Meanwhile the Cons have outflanked the Liberals and are in position to shank them. By all means though, carry on deluding yourselves.

Steve V said...

Delusion is your forte robert, enjoy the jaded and irrelevant perspective.

Robert McClelland said...

You should really read my post, Steve.

Greg said...

I can't wait for the vote either. All of this, is just noise.

DL said...

The Liberals are now irrelevant. They say they will vote down the government regardless of what legislation is proposed. They don't matter anymore. The NDP will strike a deal - if Harper is willing to make a monumental 180 policy turn (but in all likelihood it will never happen). If he does the NDP can say - "the Liberals propped up Harper in exchange for a committee that accomplished zilch - we on the other hand got the following substantive concessions (fill in the blanks)". I highly doubt it will happen because Harper will never make the kinds of concessions that the NDP would demand - but it doesn't hurt to make it look like an early election that no one wants is 100% Iggy's fault.

Steve V said...

Robert

I already know about it. I'm sure EC will really try and move this court issue a long to accomodate the Cons for the next election. Besides that, the courts are so lightning speed, aren't they? Get a clue dude.

Greg

Of course it is. You "non-partisans" are more predictable than your targets.

Steve V said...

DL

Weak tea, but I appreciate the effort. We will welcome our irrelevance as you prop up the government. Mmmm, goood.

Greg said...

Steve, for the life of me, I have no clue how this is going to turn out and neither do you. Bring on the vote and we will what happens. If Layton does sell his vote to Harper, I hope he wrestles more out of him than the Liberals have. Because if he doesn't, he is finished. I think he is smart enough to know that, but we will see.

Anonymous said...

The NDP -- will they try for a better balanced budget with the Conservatives? Increased taxes? More spending? Bring Khadr home? Make Layton Minister of Finance? The possibilities are endless.

Steve V said...

"I hope he wrestles more out of him than the Liberals have. "

I guess you were sleeping during the budget. Why don't you compare the November update with the final product. Then come back and lets talk wrestling.

At best, Layton would try to secure one of his pet issues and declare victory. The fact they've already started rolling over immediately, before we even know how this plays out, doesn't denote strength.

Greg said...

I guess you were sleeping during the budget. Why don't you compare the November update with the final product. Then come back and lets talk wrestling.

You can thank the coalition for any small gains in the budget. As for Layton, if he does sell out cheap, he is done.

Steve V said...

Who headed that coalition? And who did the Conservatives bend too, in order to try and get the budget passed? Why did conservatives start calling Harper a "liberal"?

From my perspective, I don't care if he sells cheap, sells high or doesn't sell at all. The Liberals don't lose, if they can oppose with impunity.

Greg said...

The coalition, from my vantage point was a coalition of two. If there is a Liberal to be thanked here it is Mr. Dion, not Iggy.

Steve V said...

Again Greg, you take these conversations to other worlds. Actually Harper managed the budget thinking what could he get to entice Ignatieff. The option was still on the table, and they clearly caved to many of our demands. Anyways, how bout that NDP...

Malcolm+ said...

The NDP has never said they would vote aginst the Harper Conservatives no matter what. They have always moved on a case by case basis.

Unlike the Liberals, however, the NDP has actually been prepared to vote against the Conservatives when they offered nothing.

Standing by for Iggy to cave . . . again.

Gayle said...

"If Layton does sell his vote to Harper, I hope he wrestles more out of him than the Liberals have."

It is in Harper's best interest to prop up the NDP. We will see how much he wants to avoid an election when, and if, they come to an agreement. I suspect he can find an issue his base can live with.

Steve V said...

Malcolm

Might I suggest you guys do a Duceppe and "sleep on it" before commenting. Probably come with more believable lines, it's sort of sad rationalizations and mangled semantics at this point.

I will say this, watching other NDP MP's today. They were caught off guard by Mulclair's statements (not Lavigne he was in key). Maybe Tom can just feel the vice tightening in Outremont, which makes him slightly more "cave" friendly. The push is on.

Anonymous said...

"The secret weapon on our side is Stephen Harper's record," he (Ignatieff) said. "We can do better."

The problem with that statement is that Michael and the Liberals supported that record numerous times, even after talking tough in a similar fashion, only to backpeddle over and over. Sorry, Ignatieff and the Liberals own that "record", too.

Trying to say that you're going to be a better alernative to Harper only works if, you know, you actually don't act like him.

Steve V said...

"Sorry, Ignatieff and the Liberals own that "record", too."

Nobody, apart from malcontents, believe that. Honestly, people can distinguish between the government and the opposition. It's so old, so's the 79. Get some new material.


“The Prime Minister needs to decide if he wants to call an election or call Mr. Layton,” said NDP national director Brad Lavigne.

Hilarity.

Tomm said...

Gayle,

Right you are. It is to the CPC advantage to make the NDP look good at the expense of the LPC.

They have reason to play ball with the NDP, or certainly make the NDP look "honourable" in the face of LPC "arrogance".

The LPC is going to get squeezed here.

Worse news is yet to come. If the bottom drops out of LPC support before mid-September (let's say a 5% loss), and it could... how does the LPC back out without looking panicky and unprincipalled?

Steve V said...

"The LPC is going to get squeezed here."

Oh Tomm, squeeze away.

Tomm said...

Steve,

It's just in the cards.

The LPC is looking for seats in suburban and rural Quebec, and Ontario outside of Toronto.

They are up against all 3 parties depending on the seat. The Bloc and the NDP will both be campaigning against the LPC harder than the CPC. Just like with Paul Martin in 2004 and 2006, they will be getting stabbed in their flank by the NDP and Bloc while they go nose to nose with Harper.

Most of Harper's seats will be secure (the west, and rural~blue seats in Ontario east)

Gayle said...

Tomm - somehow I think the LPC are well aware of how the other two opposition parties are going to behave. Something also tells me they have plans on how to deal with that.

In any event, if Harper gives away the farm just to avoid an election, he will look desperate to everyone but his base (who seem willing to forgive pretty much everything). I suspect the LPC do not care about his base - they care about everyone who is going to see him as desperate.

On another point, does anyone think that little meeting between Layton and Harper was to discuss just this eventuality? It will be interesting to see what Harper does to avoid an election - if anything.

Tomm said...

Gayle,

I don't think Harper will do anything to avoid a vote. I think there is even a chance that he will cite public comments by the other 3 leaders to put up his own confidence vote earlier than the opposition day as a way of clearing the air and suggesting that parliament either seriously get back to business or let's have the axe fall as soon as possible.

With respect to the Harper/Layton discussions, I don't think it's knowable. Perhaps Harper will take some of the NDP plums on the table (e.g. ATM fees) and as an act of a peace maker, try to support what he can, or imbed them in a CPC package. I don't think that is very likely.

RuralSandi said...

DL says the Libs will be 100% responsible? That's impossible. The other two parties have to vote non-confidence - duh.

Layton is so full of bluster, cockiness and bravado when the onus isn't on him.

Harper will have to think this out - will he go with the support of the separatists after what he's said and will he let Layton gloat and brag about how he pressured Harper and take credit?

Remember Layton brags about balance the budget for Martin when in fact all he did was get Martin to make an amendment.

Gayle said...

Harper has not prorogued for nine months now! :)

Tomm said...

Gayle,

Maybe that is the next Act. Harper prorogues instead of allowing a confidence motion to pass.

I somehow don't think the GG would be amused.

Gayle said...

I would not put it past him, but I am not sure how he can square that with his position that it would be negligent to go into an election during this time of recovery.

First he prorogues when the economy is tanking, and then he does so after he has already claimed we need to keep parliament working?

Not that that will be what voters care about. All they will see is a desperate man delaying the inevitable. I do not think he would take that risk. If he does we will all get an idea about how his polling numbers are doing.

rockfish said...

How long into Martin's minority did Harper try to force an election? Was it 6 or 7 months? How much time passed before he tried his 'coalition of the willing' to propose to the GG, having good face with Layton and Duceppe?
Tomm's usual mutterings smack of arrogance and ignorance. The CONs, according to Layton and Duceppe, owe their own record to the Liberals' support over the past few years. What's hilarious how when Harper's in trouble he crawls on his belly and uses any ploy, even wedging Canadians against Canadians, talk of unrest and palace coups, to save his own skin. Pathetic.

Anonymous said...

Nobody, apart from malcontents, believe that. Honestly, people can distinguish between the government and the opposition.

Oh please, only politcal partisan really believe that. It will be easy to demonstrate how often the Liberals have supported this govenment in the last four years. You don't get to do that and say you'll be a better alternative when you've essentially proven to be the same thing.

It's so old, so's the 79. Get some new material.

Things are only "old" to Liberals when they are invariably true and unpalatable at the same time.

Steve V said...

Wow, that was so convincing. Keep telling yourself what you want, sounds really stale from here.