Saturday, January 26, 2008

Van Loan: I'm A Liar Too

Interesting defence of Sandra Buckler from Peter Van Loan. I lie too, and so do my colleagues for that matter:
"She acknowledged she misspoke, and she handled herself in a professional and competent fashion," said Mr. Van Loan. "If everybody up on the Hill who misspoke themselves once in their life had to resign, none of you would be here, I wouldn't be here, nobody would be here up on Parliament Hill."


Raphael Alexander said...

Easy now. "Misspoke" may have meant she didn't have permission to speak on the matter.

Steve V said...


It's not whether she had permission, it's the fact she presented a falsehood, what we in the real world call lying.

I would add, you said the following on you blog, in relation to Dion's "lying" comment:

"There's every indication that Stephane Dion might be right"

Today's emergency closed door meeting is another indication that Dion was right, and damage control is full gear.

Tomm said...


Peter Van Loan is making a rather good point here.

Let us take Pablo Rodriguez, what was it he said again...

"...I did not have sex..."

wrong quote. How about something to do with his writing his own question and not getting it from a CBC reporter. Yaeh, that's it.

Let us take Stephane Dion on Nato Forces in Pakistan.

I think the Liberal Party should boil these two in oil for their agregious offenses of "lying". Nice choice of words SD!

Certainly if Sandra is discplined, so should those two.

Just my thoughts.


Oxford County Liberals said...

Tomm, you're being more incoherent then normal.

Scotian said...

Gee, I just love how CPC supporters hold the opposition to the same standard as the government on matters of military/foreign policy here, it is not like people differentiate between what an Opposition MP and/or leader says versus what the official spokesperson for the head of government of the nation says, nope, no difference at all in their minds (assuming they believe what they are saying and not simply being propagandists knowing they are). That in and of itself underscores just how poorly they understand what they are talking about and/or letting their partisanship blind them. I also love the way they are trying to deflect to anything but discussing the fact that Buckler lied, blamed the military, withdrew only the fact that she spoke without ever confirming or refuting her first statement, and somehow it matters as much as Dion's comment about Pakistan and Rodriguez about asking a question in committee.

Man, I would hate to have to be the ones defending this government in action, I could never be so blind as this government's actions require one to be to defend it in the face of the indefensible (something which this government presents on average once a month or so at a minimum) as in this case. Given how serious an issue this is to Buckler to claim she "misspoke" when she blamed the military for not telling the government about a policy change, and then withdraws the comment after this is shown to be hogwash while claiming only to have misspoken is the very definition of lying, being caught, and then lying to claim you weren't lying the first time. As I said, indefensible. That anyone can possibly see it as anything else speaks poorly about their character, intelligence, and ability to lie to themselves, what it does not give them is any basis for credibility.

Tomm said...


It's been a long week.

I see you've been adding up all the issues that the LPC can win on.

I'm glad the LPC remains focussed on polls and "winning". "Harper's Team" (do you like that?) will continue to do what's best for the nation.


Raphael Alexander said...

Steve, is it a fact she said she was "lying"? She said she "misspoke". That could imply she did believe what she was saying, but wasn't authorized to say it. Remember, it's not a lie if you believe it.

Having said that, I won't defend Sandra Buckler on what appears to be little more than an obfuscation here...

Raphael Alexander said...

I also love the way they are trying to deflect to anything

Not deflect, but suggest plausible alternatives. We can't all genuflect at the alter of Liberal press releases.

Man, I would hate to have to be the ones defending this government in action

Believe me, I've felt just as sorry for you guys in the past year Dion's been the official not-a-leader.

Tomm said...


It looks to me like Buckler either pulled her comments out of thin air or she did indeed knew something to be not true, but said it anyway. She lied.

Let's move on shall we. What was Dion doing spilling confidential briefing comments for the press? Why did he accuse Buckler of lying when he clearly did not know whether she had deliberately lied or not, and said as much? Why would he do that except for purposes of vicious character assassination of a loyal public servant. Sounds a little like Linda Keen eh?

How about Pablo. Breaking privilege, breaking oaths of office AND clearly lying about it all. Now he is in some back room and the LPC is making sure he stays away from any microphone's for awhile.

You think you are firmly on the side of God and the angels.

Both parties have been wrestling with pigs, and have the mud to prove it.


Oxford County Liberals said...

Tomm asked:

What was Dion doing spilling confidential briefing comments for the press?

It's apparent you don't read very well at my site, Tomm, if you do indeed come over here, because that little smear attempt by the Cons. and their supporters isn't going to wash. I'll repeat what Dave over at Galloping Beaver, an ex-military man said to Raphael when he asked the same question:

Whenever anybody goes into a combat zone or a hot operation they sign a document which imposes an undertaking on them. They are not permitted to disclose anything they learn “in theatre” without the express permission of the government. Dion knew but would have committed a breach of undertaking if he disclosed what he knew. Once it was offered by the government, in court, it was no longer classified. He could then disclose it.

Nice try Tomm.. better get back to BT land and look for some new talking points. The Cons. screwed up big-time on this.. and trying to paint Dion as being disloyal or breaking confidentiality agreements isn't going to cut it.

Tomm said...


I'll take your word for it.

But, to be honest, if I am told something in confidence and commit to keeping that confidence I would certainly do so.

I would not run to the first microphone I can find to blab to the world about it once there was some court leak that had nothing to do with my confidential briefing.

That being said, if you tell me that once it is out in the media, that Dion is allowed to go public, I will accept as true.

He certainly did so.


northwestern_lad said...

Raphael... "it's not a lie if you believe it." You're kidding me, right???? Are you saying that you'd rather admit that Ms. Buckler, who holds a high rank in your party, is fanatical and dillusional rather than a liar??? If that's the kind of "thinking" that's going on inside the Conservative Party, well then that just goes to explain what we have been seeing lately. You guys deserve all the crap that you're bringing upon yourselves if that's the way of thinking around there.

Oxford County Liberals said...


And why wouldn't he, after listening to the Chief communications person of the Prime Minister speak an obvious mis--truth? Even then, he only revealed it when he was directly by a reporter -- it wasn't as if he came out pronouncing to the world that he and Iggy had known this all along.

This is Harper's mess. This is the Conservatives mess. Trying to somehow smear Dion (or even Iggy) with it isn't going to work. This government needs to be taken out in a no-confidence vote for gross incompetence and misleading the House and misleading the country - amongst other outrageous things they've done. I thought Guergis's partisan attack on Dion and Iggy while they were over there and breaking THAT confidentiality agreement was bad enough.. but they've topped it with this.

Raphael Alexander said...

Raphael... "it's not a lie if you believe it." You're kidding me, right?

Sort of, yeah. It's a George joke from Seinfeld.

Don't forget the second part of my comment.

Tomm said...


Thanks for the information. I wasn't aware that he was asked during something else. I thought he held a press conference to slam Buckler and revealed his confidential stuff as part of his comments. I didn't realize they were in response to a question.

To my mind, that actually does make a difference.


Anonymous said...

Wow! It's just like the last scene in the movie 'In and Out' in the high school auditorium where all the kids stand up and each one says "I'm gay." and then their parents stand up too and each one of them says "I'm gay." and then ...

Oh wait, that's not quite the same thing, is it? My bad.