Sunday, October 12, 2008

Appealing To Greens

Quite a statement, for non-partisan, nobel winning scientists, to advocate that Green supporters vote Liberal. Not sure if this sort of argument will have much weight in the final analysis, but it does provide more validation for the Liberal plan, further evidence that the NDP are out of step with the main players in the climate change movement, despite their divisive rhetoric:
Nobel Prize winners urge "Greens" to vote red

OTTAWA – Three senior Canadian members of the 2007 Nobel Prize-winning Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change are publicly urging those who really care about the environment to vote Liberal.

“We face a critical moment,” Dr. Andrew Weaver said in a news release.

Dr. Weaver, Dr. William Peltier and Dr. John Stone are urging potential Green Party voters to vote Liberal in order to stop the Harper government from winning.

"(Elizabeth) May and the Greens alone can help make the difference between the Harper majority that the climate scientists fear and a Liberal minority under which great progress can be made to fight climate change," said Dr. Weaver. (News Release, October 11, 2008)

Dr. Weaver told the Ottawa Citizen that a vote for the Green Party “is not a green vote.

“A green vote is for a Liberal government and Stéphane Dion. There is no other candidate you can vote for,” he said. (Ottawa Citizen, October 12, 2008)

"Great progress", under the Liberal Plan. Another set of voices, outside of the partisan arena, that supports the Liberal argument. Their only self-interest is the state of our environment, nothing more, nothing less, the words should be heeded.

26 comments:

ottlib said...

Not enough Canadians are listening and many of those who might notice this story will probably just dismiss it as partisan BS, despite the fact these scientists are non-partisan.

One of the objectives of the hyper-partisanship that the Conservatives have introduced to Canada is to reduce every issue into a partisan one because so far the Conservatives are playing the better partisan game.

It is the only way they can win.

As in the US such a strategy will eventually break down and when it does the Conservatives will suffer the same fate the Republicans are going to suffer in November. Unfortunately, Canada is a few years behind the US on that curve.

Steve V said...

ottlib

That will be one of Harper's most shameful legacies. Everyone has a partisan slant, an agenda, it's all us vs them, nobody is objective, even our most sacred institutions or experts, who simple look at facts and react accordingly.

Ivan said...

A fourth scientist who was on the IPCC also urges you to vote Liberal.

Dr. Kirsty Duncan
The Liberal candidate in Etobicoke North

http://www.kirstyduncan.ca

Constant Vigilance said...

Another excellent post. Why did they wait so long?

I strongly agree with this as well:
"further evidence that the NDP are out of step with the main players in the climate change movement, despite their divisive rhetoric"

The NDP campaign is being run like the party is a branch plant of the Conservatives. Calls to back a "strong leader". Risible GHG policy. They have sold their soul for an inconsequential increase in the vote.

I have never voted for them but I want the Tommy Douglas NDP back. At least they were deserving of respect.

Greg said...

The Liberals are the ones out of step with voters. That's why they keep losing ground to other parties. Accept that fact and you will be well on the road to recovery. Stay on this arrogant road at your own peril.

Gayle said...

Yes greg - you are right.

The liberals shoudl stop thinking about what is best for the country, and start thinking about what is best for their party.

In other words, do what Harper does...

Anonymous said...

The only hope now for the Liberals is to kill off the Green Party. Trying to get any votes from the NDP is a lost cause - they just have too much momentum and have run too strong a campaign - its a waste of time.

The only hope is trying to liquidate the Green Party.

Wayward son said...

I don't live in an ABC riding as the Conservatives will likely finish a distant third as usual, although there is no incumbent here. That allows me to vote my values, and I have been a Green for many years.

Unfortunately a coworker of mine convinced me to attend the local debate a couple days ago. He is a longtime card-carrying dipper, who had a day or two before had a conversation with the NDP candidate and had some concerns after that talk.

At the break at the half way point we both agreed that the Liberal and Green Candidates were tied for 1st in the debate with the Conservative well back and the NDP candidate dead last (every response to any question was to read from his papers, nothing came from his head, often his responses had nothing to do with the question, he even told family stories....by reading them).

In the second half a conspiracy theorist asked a question about bill c-51, telling the candidates how it was a bill that would make illegal all alternative medicines and natural health products, was a conspiracy in favor of big pharmacy companies, and was a conspiracy in favor of a new world order. The Green, Liberal and NDP candidates all agreed with the nut, only the Conservative called him on bullshit, explaining, correctly, that the new bill is almost word for word the same as the old bill, that the "stop c-51" movement is run by a company in alberta that has unresolved legal issues with the government of Canada going back a half-dozen years, for faulty and illegal advertising, and medically dangerous label claims, that the alternative medicine and natural health products industries are basically the wild west here, and that it allows the worst companies to rise to the top, but placing the best at a disadvantage, how is it that we can recognize that without regulations in other industries consumer protection would be compromised, as has been much of the discussion tonight about stronger regulations to protect consumers from listerosis but when it comes to alternative medicine and natural health products we are demanding no regulations? The Conservative was absolutely correct on all those counts, the Liberal, Green and NDP candidates were wrong. This has been an issue that I have given considerable attention to as a good friend of mine died several years ago with a strong likelyhood of the cause being a natural health weight loss product according to the autopsy. At the same time Vioxx was pulled off the market because of extensive studies showing a risk. Individual doctors could never find such risks as they don't see enough patients it is only large studies involving a huge number of patients that can find those risks. There was no way of knowing if any AM or NHP had similar or even several fold worse risks because none of them are studied for safety at all. The only problem with c-51 is that it doesn't go anywhere close to far enough to protect people, but it is a small step in the right direction.

But that was a turning point for the Green candidate. Twice after that question his answers to other questions included a warning that we shouldn't trust science or scientists. And with that he lost my vote. The Liberal, who I thought did very well with the exception of the c-51 question will get my support.

RuralSandi said...

Harper's latest strategy/tactic:

I won't get a majority - that way people will think it's okay to vote for him.

Another minority won't last 4 years - he's banking on the fact that Canadians won't want another election, therefore, vote for him to get a majority.

He's playing and manipulating peoples' minds again.

The NDP supporters better do some real thinking here or they will be helping Harper get his majority - the total opposite to their beliefs.

Steve V said...

greg

What a silly point. Yes, arrogance equates to having expert opinion on your side. Spare me.

Dame said...

NDP is Clearl Layton's Party essentially a Layton dominance on everything.

Conservative Party is clearly Harper's Party and we all Know It is a dictatorship in Progress...

Liberal party is the One Constantly offering Teamwork based longstanding Liberal Values with some new targets regarding environmental concerns.. and proven record on the economy..
Simple person as I am I have a Clear Choice. LIBERAL.

My Riding will Go Liberal /Vancouver centre/In any case.
While I do like the Greens talking about the environment a lot.. as a party they should be ignored at The Polls... Avoiding The Nader effect..I Hope a lot of people sees this as the only logical point , and will do so.

Möbius said...

despite the fact these scientists are non-partisan.

Really? Why do you assume scientists are non-partisan?

We survive on government grants like many others. Actually, quite a bit more than any others.

Gayle said...

Gee mobius - I hope you make that argument when the police say we need more cops, or jail guards and the contractors who build jails say we need tougher sentences.

Give me a break.

Steve V said...

mobius

Hippo yawns.

Möbius said...

Gee mobius - I hope you make that argument when the police say we need more cops, or jail guards and the contractors who build jails say we need tougher sentences.

Give me a break.


Interesting. You claim these folk are non-partisan because you agree with them. I'm actually one of them, and can refute it.

Frankly, I do make the same arguments about teachers, jail guards, police, bus drivers, etc., when they suggest policies that increase their own incomes and relevance.

You are incredibly naive.

Möbius said...

mobius

Hippo yawns.


Wow, you Liberals are really bitchy when losing.

And horribly original.

Gayle said...

Yes Mobius - when our teachers claim they cannot educate our children properly when they are forced to teach 40-50 kids per class, it is because they are only looking out for themselves.

I will not call you naive though - just dishonest, because this is the flimsiest of reasons for dismissing their arguments.

Möbius said...

when our teachers claim they cannot educate our children properly when they are forced to teach 40-50 kids per class, it is because they are only looking out for themselves.

Once again, you're batting heads with claims vs. reality.

Gayle said...

No mobius, you are simply refusing to address the point.

To claim an opinion is without merit simply on the basis that the person opining may benefit financially is a rather shallow analysis.

Möbius said...

To claim an opinion is without merit simply on the basis that the person opining may benefit financially is a rather shallow analysis.

You really are naive. All opinions are coloured by self-interest. You're living in a society.

Jody said...

Anybody know anything more about this?

Police in Quebec City are investigating the disappearance of three ballot boxes from an advance poll held early last week in a city riding. Media reports Saturday also said the seals had been broken on some of the [other] boxes.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/story/2008/10/12/ballots-missing.html

Gayle said...

Wow Mobius, rather than addressing the issue you turn it into an attack on me.

You really have nothing to back that up, except, maybe, your own self-interest in attacking the messenger.

Steve V said...

gayle

Just ignore it, the irony is amazing. This naive stuff, from the same guy, who just yesterday said that he didn't believe people haven't made up their minds yet, based on the fact he had long ago. Talk about projecting your narrow perspective on to a general thesis, the HEIGHT of naiviety, not to mention a dose of ignorance.

Again, this guy has an agenda, so scientists must have one too. WHATEVER. Who has the time...

Jerry Prager said...

All climate scientists in Canada think the Harper plan is nonsense, and they think so not because of their self-interest, but because they understand what the problem is, whereas Harper thinks Kyoto is a socialist plot and global warming is a myth.

Steve V said...

jerry

Don't forget about all those biased, left wing economists, that work for BANKS?

Gayle said...

Steve - I just think Mobius does not realize he successfully argued his opinion has no merit.