Monday, October 20, 2008

Dion Announcement Open Thread



Thoughts?

33 comments:

KRT said...

Thank you Mr. Dion, for making some of us actually believe in a politician again as a person of honour and integrity. (Too bad the Liberal Party is showing us why they deserve to be thumped and derided, for they show not even one ounce of your basic decency.)Remember that no matter what you do (here's hoping you use the conference to clean house rather then resign), fighting for the environment is more than politics and more than just one man, it is essential to our very survival.
Bush won twice by using division and smears, but Al gore has shown that there is another path upon which your strength, integrity and honesty can thrive. When comparing those two leaders, it is obvious who was the real leader and who was the pretender.

Mark Francis said...

Kady is liveblogging it

http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/10/20/the-end-of-a-dionysty-liveblogging-the-liberal-leaders-first-post-election-press-conference/

Anonymous said...

bollocks

Rae and Ignatieff can go fuck themselves.

Here's to 6-10 more year of the Conservative, Reform, Alliance, Party.

PeterC said...

Crap.

Well, the Liberals are idiots and will get exactally what they deserve.

Hopefully Dion can stem the hemorage of cash and prevent some of the leadership nastiness that is so halmark of the Liberals nowadays.

Steve V said...

Nice to hear Dion will focus on renewal while he stays on, especially the financing angle.

Zorpheous said...

My thougths are found here

http://thewingnuterer.blogspot.com/2008/10/well-it-is-offical-lpoc-have-sht-for.html

Anonymous said...

Wow, Dion is such a bigger person than I am. I only wish I could be as solid as him in times of stress.

Steve V said...

What struck me, how Dion accurately understood the challenges for him moving forward, and the reasons why the Liberals failed. There goes one of the good one's...

A View From The Left said...

I agree, Steve.
However, I think too many of those senior party officials are too happy blaming it all on the leader to care about anything else.

whopitulia said...

I'm glad he's staying. The two factions (they know who they are) were already jockeying for position to get hold of the interim leader's spot and the optics of that was awful. We can't have a wild west atmosphere breaking out in the party where a leadership void is being exploited. So good. And let those bravehearts who made anonymous statements to the media have to face Dion in caucus.

Steve V said...

miranda

That will be a tragic error. You ask those MP's at the door, when people said they didn't like the leader, the first adjective used was "weak". Where did that come from? That doesn't imply Dion didn't make mistakes, but there is no bandaid solution here, a new leader is a small part.

Anonymous said...

I have voted NDP for 30 years and Dion is the only Liberal leader I have supported. He was honest, caring, and visionary. I regret he was not political enough for the system we have now. He is a Cassandra about global warming, hopefully we are not Trojans and personally do what our politicians are to weak to do.

Anonymous said...

I give Dion a lot of credit. He was not my choice for leader but I always considered him to be very intelligent and dignified. Dion I think is someone who does very well at the cabinet table or in the backrooms, but not as leader. The reasons the Liberals lost weren't entirely his fault, and while leadership was one component, there are bigger considerations that the Liberals must address if they want to began a new dynasty.

I do not, however, think that Dion should remain leader until May. While he certainly has the right to do so and to leave in a manner he sees fit, my concern is that the Liberals may have a lame duck leader that no one supports. The next session of parliament will be an important one and it will be centred on the economy. The Liberals need internal renewal, but during this process, they also need to begin to demonstrate that they are an alternative to the government and have the sound economic judgement Canadians want.

Fairly or unfairly, Dion will continue to be associated with the smeared green shift plan, and I am positive the Conservatives will focus upon this whenever the Liberals try to mount an effective opposition. Personally, I would have preferred to see MacCallum and Goodale take over the leadership positions. With their background (McCallum is an economist) and experience (Goodale is a former finance minister), they would be in a position to give the Liberals considerable credibility in the economic debate.

I did not get to see the beginning of the press conference, but I hope Dion will continue to serve the Liberal party as Joe Clark and Stockwell Day have done for their parties. He is a good, intelligent man who can still contribute.

Mark Francis said...

By staying on, Dion may be able to make some changes in the party precisely because he is stepping down.

Anonymous said...

He was a loser. It's time to move on. The leadership candidates have a lot of work to do. Let's start looking forward, starting now.

liberazzi said...

I am glad that Dion is going to stay on until May. I am also glad that he pointed the other difficulties facing the party besides leadership and that he will work towards fixing those challenges in the next few months. I think he will be able to focus more of his efforts on fundraising etc, without the all the other BS that went on b4. Unfortunately, he will have to face the bullying from the other side in the meantime. My opinion that he had to resign has not changed, but a good man deserved a better fate. However, the voting public could not see past their own biases and would have never given him another shot in my mind.

Steve V said...

anon

At least you could have the guts to use your real nic ;) Another anonymous coward speaks.

Steve V said...

lib

He basically came to the same conclusion as you, that it would be too hard to overcome the cemented perceptions. I think that displayed an incredible sensibility.

The Dogs Have it! said...

I thought his speech was a wee bit too whiney. Blaming others, even if true, is never the classy thing to do.

IMHO...

Ivan said...

Dion is a great man whose done great things for Canada.

He should have been allowed to set his own terms of departure, and he did. Good for him.

I truly hope he sticks around cause I think he's a very able cabinet minister and will make a fantastic contribution to the Liberal government that will emerge in the next election.

900 ft Jesus said...

Caught it live, class - and not an act.

I’m glad he’s staying on as interim leader. Kudos to him for having such courage and not feeling he needs to hand his head.

I was impressed (but not at all surprised) that he accepted responsibility for his part.

His love of Canada and Canadians, and his absolute respect for them showed clearly and showed us what a quality leader he is.

Our loss, that he is leaving, but he explained well why this is needed. This man’s selflessness and generosity in this speech may have stopped some people from leaving the Liberal party out of disgust.

catherine said...

Dion knows that, even though the Liberals did so poorly, there are some people who voted Liberal because of the platform and because of his integrity. You don't just toss those aside. So, yes, people want a leader who will sell and who will win, but no one was saying they want a Liberal party which doesn't care about the environment, social justice, a strong economy and honesty and integrity. Staying on gives the party a better chance to keep those who support Dion and the values they associate with him, while trying to reattract former supporters and new supporters with a new leader. I think Dion is doing what he considers best for the Liberals and for Canada.

Susan said...

As far as I'm concerned, he was sabotaged inside the party and out by the forces that are too stupid to realize that the status quo is no longer possible in any way - economically or environmentally and we have lost all possibility of being a world leader for the future. We have been sold out. And Harper will now continue to dismantle the country under the guise of fighting a potential deficit. I am heartbroken for my country.

Cousin Ben said...

I am a progressive conservative (note the small 'c') who voted for Dion. I did so for three reasons:

1. The Green Shift was a brilliant idea marketed poorly. It was actually a fairly conservative notion that the Cons will regret attacking so vehemently. Sadly, long-term thinking gets you nowhere in politics.
2. Dion was clearly a decent and genuine man, made more clear by today's announcement. I imagine his party will soon elect someone less dignified and more suited to play the dirty PR game.
3. The Reform Party, I mean Conservative Party, despite a few fine members in its ranks, is under the control of a foul and coniving man who will do anything to win. Poor form.

Good election posts Steve. I read 'em almost everyday. And while your partisan slip showed too often for my tastes, I can hardly complain from my partisan position, provincially.

Cheers!

Steve V said...

Hey ben :) Partisan, I don't follow ;)

JimBobby said...

Well, I reckon Dion's a good man and I'd rather see him as PM than King Steve. Being a decent, intelligent person isn't enough in politics, though.

Salesmanship and image are vital for electability and Dion, good and decent as he is, is not a good salesman and he let the Con's create his image without fighting back until the election campaign. If the public didn't know the real Dion, he is as much to blame for that as the Cons and their attack ads.

I'm left wondering how much different the outcome would have been if there'd been fewer abstentions and a much earlier election. I thought that Dion et al would have made better use of the summer break to sell their platform.

The tax shift was a good idea. We've been touting it in the Green Party for several years. Now, unfortunately, the idea is political poison -- at least for any of the big 3 parties. I think the Greens'll hang on to it but Dion's fumbling of the sales job will make it an unpopular plank for years to come. Too bad. We really do need to deal with greenhouse gases.

JB

Steve V said...

JB

He shares the blame, no question, everyone takes responsibility. However, what could he have done after the leadership, to respond to those ads? The party wasn't equipped, it was very maddening to watch it happen, with no return fire. That fact belies the real problem, which went beyond Dion. Ditto for the Green Shift rollout, I heard we would have ads, we never did, the Cons defined it immediately. Then, the Cons bombarded the airwaves prior to the election, while we searched for a plane. The lesson here, you can't let yourself get swiftboated, which means job one is acquiring the resources to fight back.

Steve V said...

One more point, the abstaining. Apparently, Dion wanted to go in the early days, because he felt it was hurting our reputation, and his as well. It was the party that forcefully argued we weren't ready, and that decision became the central attack line for the NDP. Layton's chief attack was those abstentions, and it was a convincing argument, we are the real opposition, not those weak Liberals. Who's fault is it that we weren't ready, and what if we took a flyer and went in the spring?

JimBobby said...

...what could he have done after the leadership, to respond to those ads?

I think a good response would have been, "Not a leader? Just watch me." Then, of course, he'd have come up with some "whip 'em into shape, maintain party discipline, rally the troops" stuff.

Who knows what the outcome would have been without the abstentions? I have a hard time thinking the Libs would have done much worse than they did do.

Did I mention that I think Dion's a good and decent man?

I think you Libs should take a good look at Martha Hall Findlay. I've not seen her name come up much re possible leaders but I think she'd be a game changer.

JB

Steve V said...

Duly noted that Martha was present at Dion's press conference today. Might not be her time, but I really like her.

JB, one thing I will always wonder, what if all that energy spent on positioning for the next leadership race was invested in this leader. A team only succeeds with a hive mentality, and that was just never the case with Dion. Was it his fault? Possibly, but I've seen too many Liberals who NEVER got over 2006, and that's a shame in the grand scheme.

RuralSandi said...

To say it was the inside party people who were at fault is a little bit of a stretch. You have to face it - he didn't connect, like it or not.

That's where the Conservatives and NDP are smarter than our Liberal party.

They don't talk bad abut each other (Volpe/Kyrgiannis(sp?)and don't let their dirty laundry get out in public....and I'm sure they have it.

And, the supporters that comment don't help either. They are already at war - attack Rae or attack Iggy - both of whom never spoke ill of Dion and according to Elizabeth Thompson help a lot in raising funds to help the other candidates.

So, I think it's time for the supporters to do a little reflecting as well.

Face it - the Cons and NDP read your stuff and they will find a way to use the negativity against whatever candidates for for leadership and definately against the winner - think about it.

Why do we have to hate each other if we believe in one candidate over another? We have a problem in infighting and outfighting.

Time to clean up our acts folks.

Steve V said...

sandi

That's funny, because I was just saying to someone else, you never see former NDP or Con bigwigs slamming their party, yet we see to have a LeDrew under every rock, and it's really a few parties within a big party, if the truth be told. This leadership will be divisive, it's just the nature and it never seems to change.

Steve V said...

Just to add, when people are working at cross purposes, then it doesn't help the leadership, when people are questioning everything, or doing things independently (which has happened), then it detracts from the whole. Sure, people did their part, but we all know other shit was happening as well, and Dion KNEW it too. That's not a winning formula, it just isn't.